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Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

ziglang.org

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Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#241

Post by blahedo »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #167
johnfn wrote: post #95

> it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress. > More importantly, Actions is created by monkeys This writing really does not reflect well on Zig. If you have technical issues with Github, fine: cite them. But leave ad ho…

The "monkeys" here are clearly refering to those kinds with typewriters.

Evidently not "clearly", given the number of people who didn't see it, but that was my first interpretation as well: I took it as an "infinite monkeys" reference that, in context, was probably standing in for "some un-tested gen AI output". Which, clicking on the link, seems to be what happened?

Anyway, yes, "infinite monkeys on typewriters" seemed to be the relevant meaning of "monkeys" here.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#242

Post by lmm »

DANmode wrote: post #184
beepbooptheory wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "monkeys" here are clearly refering to those kinds with typewriters.

vs…?

Apparently there's some specific US cultural history of people calling black people "monkeys" as a racist insult, and so some people from there immediately leap to assume that any use of "monkey" as an insult is that.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#243

Post by throwaway150 »

adrianN wrote: post #189
shridharxp wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's okay to bring some "natural" language in technical communication. It feels more humane. All the whitewashed corporate language, riddled marketing bullshit feels so soul dead.

You can express dissatisfaction and anger „naturally“ without calling people losers and monkeys.

> You can express dissatisfaction and anger „naturally“ without calling people losers and monkeys.

I can't speak for others. But if I am screwing up as badly as GitHub is, I'd rather someone calls me a loser and monkey for it. It's like someone splashing ice cold water on my face and showing me the reality. It's going to be very uncomfortable, yes. But I'll learn from it and try not to screw up so badly again. I find this kind of natural outburst refreshing really.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#244

Post by therein »

petersellers wrote: post #207
ssivark wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> created by monkeys I don't particularly care for either Zig or Github, but... they do precisely cite the technical issues. That snippet links to a Github discussion comment https://github.com/actions/runner/issues/3792#issuecomment-3... (reproduced below) "The bug in this "safe sleep" script is obvious from looking at it: if the process is not scheduled for the one-second interval in which the loop would return (du…

> I agree that the writing in the blog post is more colorful than precise, but sanitizing every bit of expression dulls the internet. Humans invented language for a reason. Where do you draw the line, then? Is a racist screed acceptable to you as long as the following paragraph references technical issues correctly? The language in the blog post is insulting. Imagine how you would feel if you were the person who wrot…

> Is a racist screed acceptable to you as long as the following paragraph references technical issues correctly?

I'm not the morality police. Nobody should be. I'd still take the article on its technical merits. As a random example, if Satoshi's paper called people using the banking system cattle, I'd still continue reading it.

> Imagine how you would feel if you were the person who wrote this code, and now you are being called a monkey in front of thousands of people on the internet

It would be absolutely fine, nobody is named specifically. He wasn't like Josh Examplemann working on Actions is a piece of shit that botches any feature he touches. Nobody is going to remember a blog post and forever hold anyone that worked on Actions to an unhirable status. And personally, I think it would be good for people to feel some shame for having implemented a feature in such a terrible way. It's not like they were told by their managers to commit these the way that they did. Calling into the sleep binary wouldn't even be more work.

Whoever is behind the new React Start Menu in Windows

along with whoever is responsible for the Chrome Web Environment Integrity

along with whoever is behind the design of OSX Tahoe

along with anyone who is working on Windows Copilot that screenshots your screen

should be ashamed of themselves. The more articles that do that, the better. They are not doing good.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#245

Post by hshdhdhj4444 »

jakobnissen wrote: post #231
duped wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's helpful when people are being assholes to point to a document describing how they're being an asshole and to cut it out

Is it really? In this example, could you not see anything wrong with calling employees losers and monkeys, until someone linked you the CoC?

Code of Conduct cannot stop someone from doing something.

It’s just a document.

However, in this case, the presence of the code of conduct has made it trivially easy to point out the language as wrong in a way whoever wrote this for Zig cannot refute.

It’s working exactly as it should.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#246

Post by begueradj »

johnfn wrote: post #95

> it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress. > More importantly, Actions is created by monkeys This writing really does not reflect well on Zig. If you have technical issues with Github, fine: cite them. But leave ad ho…

And insulting publicly developers like that isn't ok.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#247

Post by Klonoar »

wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #126

Very questionable decision. You're running what aims to be a major programming language - have it where people expect and live with your gripes about the platform. In retail you set up your store in the biggest mall with the most customers walking past - sure you can go set up in some back alley but don't expect customers to come to your store. This remains true even if the mall owns forget to mop the floor. This fee…

> You're running what aims to be a major programming language - have it where people expect and live with your gripes about the platform.

The core types who will make use of, contribute to, and/or otherwise use the repo likely don't need it to be on GitHub. Having it "where people expect" is useful for drive-by contributions but Zig doesn't really need that.

Furthermore, why should we as a larger community cede things to GitHub and Microsoft? It doesn't change unless larger parties move the needle.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#248

Post by O_H_E »

leo_e wrote: post #91

To see this just as a hosting switch misses the bigger picture. This is the logical infrastructure conclusion of Zig's 'Zero Dependency' philosophy. Zig spent years removing dependencies on the system C compiler (zig cc), removing dependencies on libc, and is currently working to remove the dependency on LLVM (the self-hosted backend). GitHub was just another dependency. For a project obsessed with reproducibility an…

This is a valuable take tbh, I missed it.

Zig team ought to probably write about it in that manner.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#249

Post by timcobb »

johnfn wrote: post #95

> it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress. > More importantly, Actions is created by monkeys This writing really does not reflect well on Zig. If you have technical issues with Github, fine: cite them. But leave ad ho…

> Stuff that used to be snappy is now sluggish and often entirely broken.

and as of when was GitHub known for its snappiness?

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#250

Post by rwallace »

shridharxp wrote: post #185
johnfn wrote: post #95

> it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress. > More importantly, Actions is created by monkeys This writing really does not reflect well on Zig. If you have technical issues with Github, fine: cite them. But leave ad ho…

It's okay to bring some "natural" language in technical communication. It feels more humane. All the whitewashed corporate language, riddled marketing bullshit feels so soul dead.

Sure. If you feel the need to write "this is shitty code", fair enough, I'm fine with making allowances for that kind of language. But please leave it at that, instead of also insulting the people who wrote it. There are, unfortunately, plenty of ways for bad incentives to result in competent people creating bad products.
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