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I don't care how well your "AI" works

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Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#631

Post by embedding-shape »

RHSeeger wrote: post #176
embedding-shape wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Across ~10 jobs or so, mostly as a employee of 5-100 person companies, sometimes as a consultant, sometimes as a freelancer, but always with a comfy paycheck compared to any other career, and never as taxing (mental and physical) as the physical labor I did before I was a programmer, and that some of my peers are still doing. Of course, there is always exceptions, like programmers who need to hike to volcanos to setu…

> never as taxing (mental and physical) as the physical labor I did before I was a programmer I find it... very strange that you think software development is less mentally taxing than physical labor.

Software engineering just comes really easily to my brain, somehow. Most of these days is spent designing, architecturing and managing various things, it takes time, but in the end of the day I don't feel like "Ugh I just wanna sleep and die" probably ever. Maybe when we've spent 10+ hours trying to bring back a platform after production downtime, but a regular day? My brain is as fine as ever when I come back home.

Contrast that with working as a out-call nurse, which isn't just physically taxing as you need to actually use your body multiple times per day for various things, but people (especially when you visit them in their homes, seemingly) can be really mean, weird and just draining on you. Not to mention when people get seriously hurt, and you need to be strong when they're screaming of pain, and finally when people die, even strangers, just is really taxing no matter what methods you use for trying to come back from that.

It's just really hard for me to complain about software development and how taxing it can be, when my life experience put me through so much before I even got to be a professional developer.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#632

Post by Survived »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #596
Survived wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A LLM is more like a CNC panel saw; feed a sheet in one end, stack up parts from the other. It reduces craftsmanship to unskilled labor. The design work and thinking happen somewhere else. The operator comes in, punches a clock, and chokes on MDF dust for 8 hours.

No, the idea is that such a CNC saw shouldn't need an operator at all. To the extent it still does, the operator doesn't even need to be in the same town, much less the same building. This is a GOOD thing.

Good or bad, converting craft work to production work is not making the craft worker more productive, it's eliminating the craft worker.

The unskilled operator's position is also precarious, as you point out, but while it lasts, it's a different and (arguably) less satisfying form of work.

The LLM is not a table saw that makes a carpenter faster, it's an automatic machine that makes an owner's capital more efficient.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#633

Post by dweinus »

notJim wrote: post #574
ukFxqnLa2sBSBf6 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself progressive and my main issue with the technology is that it was created by stealing from people who have not been compensated in any way. I wouldn’t blame any artist that is fundamentally against this tech in every way. Good for them.

Every artist and creator of anything learned by engaging with other people's work. I see training AI as basically the same thing. Instead of training an organic mind, it's just training a neural network. If it reproduces works that are too similar to the original, that's obviously an issue, but that's the same as human artists.

This is a bad-faith argument, but even if I were to indulge it: human artists can/do get sued for mimicing the works of others for profit, which AI precisely does. Secondly, many of the works in question have explicit copyright terms that prohibit derivative works. They have built a multi-billion dollar industry on scaled theft. I don't see a more charitable interpretation.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#634

Post by [deleted] »

sosodev wrote: post #467
bluefirebrand wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I'm watching people I used to respect start to rely on AI more and more and their skills and knowledge are declining rapidly while their reliance is growing, so I'm really not interested in following that path They seem just as enthusiastic as many of the pro AI voices here on HN, while the quality of their work declines. It makes me extremely skeptical of anyone who is enthusiastic about AI. It seems to m…

How do you know their skills and knowledge are declining rapidly? Does using an LLM cause one to suddenly forget everything?

[deleted]

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#635

Post by potbelly83 »

JustExAWS wrote: post #496
twosdai wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really agree with your point. I think that this forum being hackernews and all though lends itself to a slightly different kind of tech person. Who really values for themselves and their team, the art of getting stuck in with a deeply technical problem and being able to overcome it.

You really think that people at BigTech are doing it for the “enjoyment” and not for the $250K+ they are making 3 years out of college? From my n=1 experience, they are doing it for the pay + RSUs. If you see what it takes to get ahead in large corporations, it’s not about those who are “passionate”, it’s about people who know how to play the game. If you look at the dumb AI companies that YC is funding, those “entre…

I don't know, look at someone like https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=dmbaggett he seems to be an entrepreneur who enjoys what he's doing.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#636

Post by embedding-shape »

ramon156 wrote: post #187
embedding-shape wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, compare this to other professions, don't look at in isolation, and you'll see why you're still (or will have, seems you're a student still) having a much more pleasant life than others.

Do other professions expect you to work during personal time? At least blue collar people are done when they get told they're done I get your viewpoint though, physically exhausting work is probably much worse. I do want to point out that 40 hours has always been above average, and right now its the default

> Do other professions expect you to work during personal time? At least blue collar people are done when they get told they're done

No, and after my first programming job, neither does it happen in development. Make sure you join the right place, have the right boss, and set expectations up front, and you too can surely avoid it if it's important to you :) Usually you can throw in "work/life balance" somehow to gauge how they feel about it.

And yes, plenty of blue collar people are expected to be available during your personal time, for various reasons. Sometimes just quick questions (especially if you're a manager and you're having time off), sometimes emergencies that requires you to head on over to the place. Ask anyone who owned or even just managed a restaurant about that specific thing, and maybe you'll be surprised.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#637

Post by embedding-shape »

llm_nerd wrote: post #365
csmantle wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> programmers should be some of the most worry-free individuals on this planet, the job is easy, well-paid, not a lot of health drawbacks if you have a proper setup and relatively easy to find a new job when you need it Not in where I live though. Competition is fierce, both in industry and academia, for most posts being saturated and most employees face "HR optimization" in their late 30s. Not to mention working ove…

"Not in where I live though" I mean, not anywhere, and the data absolutely annihilates their ridiculous claims. In subsequent posts they've retreated back to "yeah, but someone somewhere has it worse", invalidating this whole absurd thread. Their comment has little correlation with reality, and seems to be a contrived, self-comforting fiction. Most firms have implemented hiring freezes if not actively downsizing thei…

> Their comment has little correlation with reality

Or you know, we live and experience different parts of the world? Where you are, you might be right, and where I am, I might be right.

But nuance tends to be harder than trying to find some absolute truth and finding out it doesn't match your preconceived notion about the whole world.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#638

Post by embedding-shape »

cpburns2009 wrote: post #157
skydhash wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a native English speaker so I checked on the definition of reliability the quality of being able to be trusted or believed because of working or behaving well For a tool, I expect “well” to mean that it does what it’s supposed to do. My linter are reliable when it catches bad patterns I wanted it to catch. My editor is reliable when I can edit code with it and the commands do what they’re supposed to do. So f…

I'm a native English speaker. Your understanding and usage of the word "reliability" is correct, and that's the exact word I'd use in this conversation. The GP is playing a pointless semantics game.

It's not semantics, if the definition is "it does what it’s supposed to do" then probably all of the currently deployed LLMs are reliable according to that definition.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#639

Post by sosodev »

swatcoder wrote: post #525
sosodev wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that is part of the equation it's not at all that simple. If the average business owner wants a custom piece of software for their workflow how are they getting it now? For decades the answer would have been new hires, agencies, consultants, and freelancers. It didn't matter that most software boiled down to a simple CRUD backend and a flashy frontend. There was still a need for developers to create every piece…

That might happen, but it hasn't yet. So far, the tools help many programmers write simple code more quickly. For technically adept professionals who are not programmers, though, we still haven't seen anything really break through the ceiling consistently encountered by previous low-code/no-code tools like FoxPro, Access, Excel, VBA, IFTTT, Zapier, Salesforce etc. The LLM-based tools for this market work differently…

I'm fairly certain that it's happening right now. There is no threshold that LLMs need to "break through" to see adoption. The number of non-technical using them to write software is growing every day.

I was working freelance through late 2023 - mid 2025 and the shift seemed quite obvious to me. Other freelancers, agency managers, etc that I talked to could see it too. The volume of clients, and their expectations, is changing very rapidly in that space.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#640

Post by embedding-shape »

RHSeeger wrote: post #179
embedding-shape wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm just pulling anecdotes out of my ass/am hallucinating. Is there something specific you'd like to point me to, besides just replying with a soundbite?

Admittedly, there's the responses in this thread with people saying "I'm in and the market here is bad, too".

Admittedly, there seems to be responses that also disagree with that, just like I did.

So I guess it depends? News at 11:00.

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