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I don't care how well your "AI" works

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Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#141

Post by queenkjuul »

embedding-shape wrote: post #67
m_a_g wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm getting paid more than ever for a job I feel like I almost shouldn't get paid for (I'm just having fun) In my Big Tech job, I sometimes forget that some people can really enjoy what they do. It seems like you're in a fortunate position of both high pay and high enjoyment. Congratulations! Out of curiosity, what do you work on?

Right now I'm doing consulting for two companies, maybe a couple of hours per week, mostly having downtime and trying to expand on my machine learning knowledge. But in general, every job I've had has been "high pay and high enjoyment" even when I initially had "shit pay" compared to other programmers, and the product wasn't really fun, I was still programming, an activity I still love. Compare this to the jobs I did…

I work remote and i hate it, sitting all day is killing me, my 5 minute daily stand-up is nowhere near enough social interaction for a whole day's work. I've been looking for a role better suited to me for over a year, but the market is miserable.

I miss having jobs where at least a lot of the time i was moving around or working directly with other people. More than anything else i miss casual conversation with coworkers (which still happened with excruciating rarity even when i was doing most of my programming in an office).

I'm glad you love programming and find the career ideal. I don't mean to harp or whine, just pointing out your ideals aren't universal even amount programmers.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#142

Post by conradfr »

embedding-shape wrote: post #20

> And yeah, I get it. We programmers are currently living through the devaluation of our craft, in a way and rate we never anticipated possible. I'm a programmer, been coding professionally for 10 something years, and coding for myself longer than that. What are they talking about? What is this "devaluation"? I'm getting paid more than ever for a job I feel like I almost shouldn't get paid for (I'm just having fun),…

I didn't enter this profession because I love reviewing code though.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#143

Post by IAmBroom »

embedding-shape wrote: post #131
hacb wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely not easy to find a new job in France, and more generally in Europe

My experience and the ones I personally known, been in Western Europe, South America and Asia, and programmers I know have an easier time to find new jobs compared to other professions. Don't get me wrong, it's a lot harder for new developers to enter the industry compared to a decade ago, even in Western Europe, but it's still way easier compared to the length people I know who aren't programmers or even in tech.

That's a quantifiable claim. Using experience to "prove" it is inappropriate.

US data does back it up, though. The tech labor sector outperformed all others in the last 10 years. https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/employment-by-major-industry-...

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#144

Post by zero-st4rs »

zkmon wrote: post #116
zero-st4rs wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's yourself without your material possessions and social connections? There is no such thing as yourself without these. perhaps a being that has the capacity for intention and will?

Capacity for intention and will were already driven by augmentations that were knowledge and reasoning. Knowledge was sourced externally and reasoning was developed from externally recorded memory of past. Even the instincts get updated by experiences and knowledge.

I'm not sure if you wrote this with AI, but could you provide examples?

Knowledge is shaped by constraints which inform intention, it doesn't "drive it."

"I want to fly, I intend to fly, I learn how to achieve this by making a plane."

not

"I have plane making knowledge therefore I want and intend to fly"

However, I totally understand that constraints often create a feedback loop where reasoning is reduced to the limitations which confine it.

My Mom has no idea that "her computer" != "windows + hp + etc", and if you were to ask her how to use a computer, she would be intellectually confined to a particular ecosystem.

I argue the same is true for capitalism/dominant culture. If you can't "see" the surface of the thing that is shaping your choices, chances are your capacity for "will" is hindered and constrained.

Going back to this.

> What's yourself without your material possessions and social connections? There is no such thing as yourself without these.

I don't think my very ability to make choices comes from owning stuff and knowing people.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#145

Post by danaris »

grumbel wrote: post #125
spicyusername wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> assign work to an LLM This is just not happening anywhere around me. I don't know why it keeps getting repeated in every one of these discussions. Every software engineer I know is using LLM tools, but every team around me is still hiring new developers. Zero firing is happening in any circle near me due to LLMs. LLMs can not do unsupervised work, period. They do not replace developers. They replace Stack Overflow…

> This is just not happening anywhere around me. Don't worry about where AI is today, worry about where it will be in 5-10 years. AI is brand new bleeding edge technology right now, and adaption always takes time, especially when the integration with IDEs and such is even more bleeding edge than the underlying AI systems themselves. And speaking about the future, I wouldn't just worry about it replacing the programme…

> Don't worry about where AI is today, worry about where it will be in 5-10 years.

And where will it be in 5-10 years?

Because right now, the trajectory looks like "right about where it is today, with maybe some better integrations".

Yes, LLMs experienced a period of explosive growth over the past 5-8 years or so. But then they hit diminishing returns, and they hit them hard. Right now, it looks like a veritable plateau.

If we want the difference between now and 5-10 years from now and the difference between now and 5-10 years ago to look similar, we're going to need a new breakthrough. And those don't come on command.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#147

Post by IAmBroom »

embedding-shape wrote: post #124
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US seems to struggle with that specific point as of late, yet it remains true in the rest of the world Are you sure about that?

No, I'm just pulling anecdotes out of my ass/am hallucinating. Is there something specific you'd like to point me to, besides just replying with a soundbite?

Data.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#148

Post by Razengan »

everdrive wrote: post #138

>In a world where fascists redefine truth, where surveillance capitalist companies, more powerful than democratically elected leaders, exert control over our desires, do we really want their machines to become part of our thought process? To share our most intimate thoughts and connections with them? Generally speaking people just cannot really think this way. People broadly are short term thinkers. If something is c…

> People broadly are short term thinkers.

I wonder how much of that is "nature vs. nurture"?

Like the Tolkienesque elves in fantasy worlds, would humans be more chill too if our natural lifespans were counted in centuries instead of decades?

Or is it the pace of society, our civilization, that always keeps us on edge?

I mean I'm not sure if we're born with a biological sense of mortality, an hourglass of doom encoded into our genes..

What if everybody had 4 days of work per week, guaranteed vacation time every few months, kids didn't have to wake up at 7/8 in the morning every day, and progress was measured biennially, e.g. 2 years between school grades/exams, and economic performance was also reviewed in 2 year periods, and so on, could we as a species mellow the fuck out?

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#149

Post by nosianu »

MattRix wrote: post #107
embedding-shape wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, sucks to be in the US as a programmer today maybe, but this isn't true elsewhere in the world, and especially not if you already have at least some experience.

You seem to keep having to add more and more qualifiers to your statements…

I only see one. "Outside the US" was the starting proposition, then they only added "experienced".

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#150

Post by IAmBroom »

ishouldbework wrote: post #39
ulfw wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are they talking about? What is this "devaluation"? I'm getting paid more than ever for a job I feel like I almost shouldn't get paid for (I'm just having fun) You do realise your position of luck is not normal, right? This is not how your average Techie 2025 is.

Well, speaking just for central Europe, it is pretty average. Sure, entry-level positions are different story, but anyone with at least few years for work experience can find reasonably payed job fairly quickly.

Others in Europe in this thread contradict your belief.

Actual data is convincing; few are providing it.

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