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What they don't tell you about maintaining an open source project

andrej.sh

71–80 of 171 posts

Re: What they don't tell you about maintaining an open source project

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, stop with this slave mentality please. You can make invoices without funding any company and without the tax office getting in your hair. It's not illegal to charge for your services and never has been. You can declare that income just fine, or skip it. The tax office won't bother you.

This isn’t true. The tax office will bother you, the client also will demand you have an actual company with liability insurance and more. There is a tremendous amount of legal and paperwork once you start accepting money and working with corps. It’s a nightmare.

I have a company in Estonia for cases like this. The amount of paperwork is nearly zero, the corps are happy they’re working with an actual company, and you can do things like holding money there (for business purchases) and paying no taxes in your home country (unless they have a CFC rule, notably US and Japan, in which case eh good luck).

Re: What they don't tell you about maintaining an open source project

#72
post #9

I don’t understand. It’s your project, you do what you want and nothing more.

People who give away things like this tend to be good people. As such when someone comes asking for help or new things they are inclined to help. Your response is where it should go when things get rude, but you don't want to start there.

I have projects online. You can use them, or not. Sometimes people file issues that I think are good and fix them.

Re: What they don't tell you about maintaining an open source project

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you purchase a $500/yr support contract 500/hr more like.

I mean you might have to negotiate a bit but yeah, a simple professional statement like “My rate for custom enhancements is $X/hr” is not going to ruffle any feathers. They might not bat an eye. The thing is if you agree, now you have to deliver. Be sure it’s something you want to do. If the project is open source because you don’t want to be a business, then be careful about letting a little quick cash change your m…

You don't have to deliver a result or continued service. You are paid per hour not per feature. If you can only offer an hour support you can only charge one hour. If you have too many clients you can decline new work until you have time. Per hour work is limited for total pay but clients expectations are limited by time.

Re: What they don't tell you about maintaining an open source project

#74
I get that he just wants to build something alone in his basement -- without product managers, sales guys, or customers with SLAs breathing down his neck. But he's doing an enormous amount of work specifically to avoid charging money for something that's already providing real value. That's the part that feels odd to me.

If you've got "200 users" who rely on your tool so deeply that a migration glitch would seriously hurt their business, you're past the point where this is a casual side project. That's the point where you should at least have some path for people to pay you.

In my head there are three phases of an open-source project:

* Toy – "I scratched my own itch and threw it on GitHub."

* Product – "People actually rely on this. Now I owe them migrations, docs, and not breaking stuff."

* Infrastructure – "If this dies, someone's company explodes and I'm on the front page of Hacker News for the wrong reason."

This post is basically the story of moving from (1) to (2).

What I rarely see is a maintainer explicitly saying which phase they're in. Users see "kanban board, nice site, good docs" and instantly a user is going to map this to, "Jira replacement!" And the author is thrilled to be compared to a polished SaaS!

But then both will be "shocked" to realize that one person can't match an entire product team, support team, design team, etc.

I think there's a lack of honesty in a lot of open source projects. I'd love to see more READMEs say things like:

* "Hobby project. I reserve the right to disappear for a month."

* "No guarantees, no SLAs. Use at your own risk!" (or even more blunt, "If you use this in production, or for mission-critical business practices, you're a fucking moron.")

* "If you're a company depending on this, you should be sponsoring it."

Anyway, seen this countless times... And the real tension starts when the author's excitement about having users surpasses the amount of work generated by those users. As long as the author wants to avoid working on a team, with business rules, and other stakeholders... it'll never actually scale.

Worse, the difference between users and customers is that there's no barrier to entry. Users expectations drift upward -- whether they are paying or not. Users don't just want fixes -- they want roadmaps, guarantees, backwards compatibility, and custom migration help. The code is open-source, but the longer the project goes on, the more the expectations drift towards enterprise-grade.

Boundaries matter. "No, that's out of scope." "No, I won't support your forked schema." "No, I can't chase down your custom patches." Those aren't signs of being unhelpful -- they're what keep the project from collapsing under its own weight. And when you have to start saying things like this, you've past the point of needing a bigger team... which means you're also past the point of where you should have started charging money for your product.

Re: What they don't tell you about maintaining an open source project

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a bunch of typical ChatGPT catch phrases in the post "Here's the thing", "but honestly". You can't know for sure but it really does look like OP wrote it then stuck it in ChatGPT but told it to not fix the capitalisation for some reason.

I say those things all the time, and I'm most certainly not ChatGPT. You can't infer someone is using an LLM from that.

Agreed it's a very weak link here.

Re: What they don't tell you about maintaining an open source project

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keeping a framework/app/SDK “pure” is very important, in my experience. Could you elaborate?

I’m a fan of “singleness of purpose.” For example, if the framework provides text storage, adding text processing might be a mistake. Instead, make another framework that can be strung onto the text storage one. It increases the granularity, and the usefulness of the modules. You could have multiple processing frameworks. In addition, it allows you to refine discrete functionality domains (which can also be personnel…

I see. I follow the same approach; with my interns I try to force them to define logical boundaries and think / design their software as libraries / components that compose together nicely.

Re: What they don't tell you about maintaining an open source project

#77

I don’t understand. It’s your project, you do what you want and nothing more.

Yesterday I received this message from a random github user: "Seriously. No SSO at all in free version? This is poor. Very very greedy and poor" [1] If you do not spend a lot of time explaining things at length, people will link back to how much an asshole you are. [1]: https://github.com/mickael-kerjean/filestash/issues/661#issu...

Close. Report as spam.

Re: What they don't tell you about maintaining an open source project

#78
post #15

> maintaining kaneo means helping people debug their setups. and honestly? it's taught me more than i expected. > people run kaneo on setups i never imagined: > behind corporate proxies > ... > in kubernetes with custom networking It's OP's project so they're welcome to support whoever they want but I definitely would not offer free support to customers who are obviously using the product commercially, especially in…

This is not as simple as it sounds. Just yesterday I had a call with the Delft university of technology in Netherland, they want me to add some features on the free version of my FOSS product [1] but they did not want to pay anything. Over the last month, I was in contact with a 800B publicly traded company for a 1.8k per year invoice, once we agreed on the general direction they kept adding expectations, first was t…

Universities are a special case. They generally don’t spend money because of the red tape.

In much of corporate America expenses under $100 give or take don’t even require documentation, so a $50/month support subscription is easily purchased.

Just need to find the person with the purchase card.

Re: What they don't tell you about maintaining an open source project

#79

I don’t understand. It’s your project, you do what you want and nothing more.

Yesterday I received this message from a random github user: "Seriously. No SSO at all in free version? This is poor. Very very greedy and poor" [1] If you do not spend a lot of time explaining things at length, people will link back to how much an asshole you are. [1]: https://github.com/mickael-kerjean/filestash/issues/661#issu...

So what? Fuck 'em. It's your project and it's open source. If they want the feature so bad they can add it themselves.

Re: What they don't tell you about maintaining an open source project

#80
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well not every country is Germany. Dunno what to tell you there. The second half of that also sounds unhinged.

> The second half of that also sounds unhinged. Since Hacker News also centers on entrepreneurship: I know quite some entrepreneurs in Germany who think this way about the bureacratic chicanery that companies have to handle, and already thought about whether hiring a hitman for these politicians would be a good idea. The hate for the political caste in Germany among many people is insane.

These laws may very well be terrible, but no need to mention on an internet forum you want to help (hire?) someone to mass murder people involved in making them. Jokes and sarcasm don't always land as intended.

As to a more constructive path: bureaucracy all over EU is definitely considered a big problem (for startups, and for many others) and there are a bunch of movements aimed at addressing them at all kinds of levels. For example look at the eu acc movement.

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