Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#51

Post by cooldeal » Wed, Oct 03, 2012, 1:05 AM UTC

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #42

cooldeal wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but access to the Google apps is indeed free It certainly is not free. Either the OEM who sold the device to you paid off Google for your access(i.e included in the hardware cost you paid the OEM) or you have to violate copyright(along with whoever uploaded them to the host who is vulnerable to a DMCA takedown) to get those apps. Can you find me a legal link to some or any Google apps .apk file(s) to load on to, say…

No. This is not true. It's not free as in freeware or shareware or open source, I already conceded that. But Google does not charge for access to the apps. If you want to package them with your device, all that they require is that you talk with them and ensure you pass the compatibility toolkit. OEMs do not pay Google in exchange for bundling Google Apps.

>If you want to package them with your device, all that they require is that you talk with them and ensure you pass the compatibility toolkit.

>OEMs do not pay Google in exchange for bundling Google Apps

Do you have a reference to those two points? A lot of the small Android tablet OEMs have a lot of trouble getting Google apps.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#52

Post by cooldeal » Wed, Oct 03, 2012, 1:08 AM UTC

dpark wrote: post #43

Apocryphon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iPhone is a relatively high-end smartphone. There is room for lower-end iOS phones in this hypothetical scenario.

I believe Apple is aware of that, which is why they currently sell not only the iPhone 5 but the iPhone 4S and iPhone 4 as well. Attacking the "lower-end iOS" market would still be toe-to-toe with Apple.

An unlocked iPhone 4 is still around $400. That's not really low end.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#53

Post by cooldeal » Wed, Oct 03, 2012, 1:09 AM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #37

cooldeal wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but access to the Google apps is indeed free It certainly is not free. Either the OEM who sold the device to you paid off Google for your access(i.e included in the hardware cost you paid the OEM) or you have to violate copyright(along with whoever uploaded them to the host who is vulnerable to a DMCA takedown) to get those apps. Can you find me a legal link to some or any Google apps .apk file(s) to load on to, say…

I don't know about legality (although I know they're widely distributed on reputable sites and Google hasn't taken them down), but my HP Touchpad has the Android market installed including access to all Google apps.

I have a Touchpad with Android on it too :)

I would disagree on the "reputable" part. Which reputable sites are they distributed on?

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#54

Post by dpark » Wed, Oct 03, 2012, 2:14 AM UTC

cooldeal wrote: post #52

dpark wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Apple is aware of that, which is why they currently sell not only the iPhone 5 but the iPhone 4S and iPhone 4 as well. Attacking the "lower-end iOS" market would still be toe-to-toe with Apple.

An unlocked iPhone 4 is still around $400. That's not really low end.

Well, in the US, no one's buying unlocked bottom-tier iPhones. I don't know about overseas, though. Are a lot of people buying $200 Andoid phones in Europe?

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#55

Post by freehunter » Wed, Oct 03, 2012, 2:53 AM UTC

cooldeal wrote: post #53

freehunter wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about legality (although I know they're widely distributed on reputable sites and Google hasn't taken them down), but my HP Touchpad has the Android market installed including access to all Google apps.

I have a Touchpad with Android on it too :) I would disagree on the "reputable" part. Which reputable sites are they distributed on?

I was linked to the apk on XDA, which, while it's a hacking site, I wouldn't describe it as disreputable. At the very least, it's high profile.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#56

Post by freehunter » Wed, Oct 03, 2012, 3:07 AM UTC

dpark wrote: post #44

freehunter wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was really interested in the 920 until I saw that it has capacitive hardware buttons. Right now I have a Samsung Focus, and when someone else grabs my phone to look at a picture, I have to do the awkward "no don't hold it there, hold it here, oh no you touched one of the buttons here give it back while I figure out which one you touched now don't hold it there again" dance. That's embarrassing to me and embarrassin…

> Not touching any phone with capacitive buttons ever again. I think that limits you to iOS. > I'll be upgrading to the nicest WP8 device with actual, real buttons. I don't think there are any WP8 devices currently announced that have only non-capacitive buttons. The Samsung ATIV S has physical "Windows" button, but the other two face buttons are still capacitive. This is an interesting point, though. I've never hear…

If I have to wait, I will. Windows Phone 7 and my Focus are good enough for the time being. If I get tired of waiting, no matter how much I love the Windows Phone ecosystem, hate iTunes, and am not a big believer in the hype around the iPhone, if time comes and I need a new smartphone, the iPhone would win me over. I like Android as a tablet OS, but I'm not a fan of it on a phone for personal reasons.

Capacitive buttons are a deal-breaker. I feel that strongly about them, that they have no place on a premium handheld device, that they ruin the experience, and that they completely ignore user intentions. I feel that strongly that I would abandon the entire ecosystem just because I can't stand the buttons.

And this coming from a staunch defender of Windows Phone and loyal subscriber to the Zune Pass for years who has never said another word against the platform. Guys, stop making capacitive buttons!

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#57

Post by pm90 » Wed, Oct 03, 2012, 3:17 AM UTC

roc wrote: post #29

hospadam wrote: post #16

After Microsoft's announcement of the Surface Tablet... people had to see this coming. I'm not debating the merits of doing this or not doing this... but if MS was willing to make their own tablet, surely they were willing to make their own phone. What's interesting is the difference between the mobile and PC market. With PCs - there is no other (realistic) OS for OEM makers to use. I mean, they just have to keep usi…

The only OEM making Windows Phones that isn't already also making Android phones is Nokia. And given the resounding thud with which Nokia's Windows Phones have fallen (fairly or not), it seems unlikely that Nokia will exclusively pursue Windows Phone to its own demise, Elop or no. So... there's really no risk to Microsoft here. It's just yet-another Hail Mary For Traction.

If Nokia-built phones with Windows were unable to compete in the market then can Microsoft-built phones fare any better?

Seems unlikely

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#58

Post by eckyptang » Wed, Oct 03, 2012, 8:36 AM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #39

eckyptang wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Got aa 710 and an 800 here. Nice phones for the money.

I was really interested in the 920 until I saw that it has capacitive hardware buttons. Right now I have a Samsung Focus, and when someone else grabs my phone to look at a picture, I have to do the awkward "no don't hold it there, hold it here, oh no you touched one of the buttons here give it back while I figure out which one you touched now don't hold it there again" dance. That's embarrassing to me and embarrassin…

I agree there. It's one of the things I liked about the 710 (the hardware buttons). It is also extremely cheap here in the UK now (£89!) so screw getting tied to a contract with it.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#59

Post by roc » Wed, Oct 03, 2012, 1:24 PM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #57

roc wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only OEM making Windows Phones that isn't already also making Android phones is Nokia. And given the resounding thud with which Nokia's Windows Phones have fallen (fairly or not), it seems unlikely that Nokia will exclusively pursue Windows Phone to its own demise, Elop or no. So... there's really no risk to Microsoft here. It's just yet-another Hail Mary For Traction.

If Nokia-built phones with Windows were unable to compete in the market then can Microsoft-built phones fare any better? Seems unlikely

If Nokia has suffered about as much as its share-holders can stomach, but Microsoft still wants to push their platform, would Microsoft have any choice?

Anyway, the thing I haven't seen anyone consider is: whether the device being 'locked down' in the Entertainment/Devices group is more an iPod Touch competitor -- skewed toward gaming -- than iPhone.

That would make sense to me anyway. It would placate existing phone OEMs and serve as a Skunkworks "what do we do if the OEMs abandon us" project.

It's also a huge opportunity for Microsoft to build support for the winphone platform off their popular and functional consumer ecosystem in the XBox/Live/Marketplace/Content Deals/etc.

And with Nintendo potentially forcing the "second-screen" configuration, Microsoft needs to have a more-integrated first-party solution than even their current attempt.