Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Racism at a gaming company

qu33riousity.tumblr.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 468 posts

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#371

Post by _b8r0 »

tptacek wrote: post #137

Decoder ring for nerds who are unable to read past words like "neoliberal colonizer" without racing to the nearest TEXTAREA: * A black coworker is singled out by another (non-black) coworker with "watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit" * Referring to a latino coworker, that same coworker suggests jokes: "Like ‘you’re a mexican whore’ or like ‘your mother’s a Mexican whore?" * The black coworker…

The author had me up till:

> Going back to the matter at hand, Steve then proceeds to do what white men always can’t help but do: “educate.”

Not all white men can't help but educate. There's a line between banter and offense. I would never want anyone in my team to be offended and I tend to try to (mostly) stay on the side of caution on the banter front mainly because my job is to make it as easy as possible for people to do theirs. I did feel from the photos that the author's attire was not appropriate for the offices we work in (but might be fine for his), but find comparisons to Run DMC much more inappropriate. For one, if I was a member of Run DMC I would greatly protest against the style of the author's dress sense, but then again I grew up in the 80s, the decade that fashion forgot.

At the end of the article, it's clear there are no winners, only losers. It's good that the author is no longer there because he doesn't have to deal with idiots like that. Life's too short to have to put up with any form of crap in an environment that doesn't suit you, regardless of the reasons. It's also good for the idiots working there that he's no longer there either because frankly they lack the maturity in their environment (even if they have it individually) to cope with having someone that doesn't fit their world view there. Racism in the workplace is unacceptable but it does happen[1]. The trick is to deal with it sensitively and objectively while making sure that people understand that they're wrong, why they're wrong and what they need to do to be right. If they screw up with it repeatedly, then maybe they need to find a new job.

[1] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#373

Post by lambda »

tptacek wrote: post #137

Decoder ring for nerds who are unable to read past words like "neoliberal colonizer" without racing to the nearest TEXTAREA: * A black coworker is singled out by another (non-black) coworker with "watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit" * Referring to a latino coworker, that same coworker suggests jokes: "Like ‘you’re a mexican whore’ or like ‘your mother’s a Mexican whore?" * The black coworker…

> A black coworker is singled out by another (non-black) coworker with "watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit"

You got this one backwards. It's another black coworker warning the author that "Steve" talks a lot of shit.

Yeah, everything else there is pretty awful, and Steve should have been fired for it.

I kind of wondered why he mentioned that he was going to to talk to HR, but then didn't. It seems like the appropriate response it to talk to Steve's manager, then HR, then take legal action if the first two were not fruitful.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#374

Post by erikpukinskis »

whalesalad wrote: post #206
JPKab wrote: post #25

I'm sorry, but this kind of whining is what I've heard from professional victims my entire life. Talking about gentrifiers as invaders discredits the rest of the story in my eyes. As a former trailer park country boy who grew up in a mostly black county, I can attest to how blatantly (and without even realizing it) racist and insensitive whites who grew up in affluent suburbs can be. My best friend (since age 11) is…

While I am completely on the side of the original author here, I do agree that a lot of this requires direct and aggressive feedback. None of this passive-aggressive shit. That's why it keeps happening. Clearly this institution has huge problems and what they are doing is totally wrong. BUT... the author just sat there and took it. He internalized the issues and let them consume him, going home, smoking weed and coll…

the author just sat there and took it

Quote:

"I take a very deep breath through my nose. I tell him, rather I clarify for him that many things said by him and other people in the office has been racist, sexist, homophobic, transpho-

“Whoa whoa whoa, those comments you’re hearing aren’t racist; they’re jokes!”"

The guy is gay, so it makes sense that he reacted passive aggressively.

That doesn't make any sense. Being interested in same-sex sex has nothing to do with passive aggression.

Females tend to behave this way, which is why a lot of workplace related sexist shit still goes on.

Women speaking up about workplace sexism is often a job-ender, if not a career-ender. That's not submissiveness, it's business acumen.

Be clear. Be loud.

That's not a complete solution. It's step 2. Step 1 is to educate enough men and white people that we can actually have a culture where clear, loud pronouncements of wrongdoing are actually heard and taken seriously, without career repercussions.

And I'm assuming when you say "Be clear. Be loud." you're speaking to white men, right? Because women and people of color already have to do way too much education in their spare time, and it's the privileged who have the extra time and energy to pick up the slack and speak out about these issues, right?

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#376

Post by vacri »

jspiros wrote: post #344
tptacek wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because Steve is surely not one of a tiny minority of white people in the office, nor is there a clear cultural connotation/prejudice of white people being thuggish. For whatever it's worth to you to know this: being considered thuggish, or violent, or hotheaded, or unreasonable is a hot-button issue for working black professionals. I've had neighbors complain to me that they can't disagree or argue with anything…

(This is a comment on the parent comment, not a comment on the original post. Hope that's alright.) "You start to see that it is also a privilege to be able to argue, even vehemently, without inadvertently confirming a malignant stereotype about your heritage or upbringing." Very well said. Thanks for articulating this idea. Don't forget that this goes both ways, though. As a straight white male that grew up in a ver…

It's very important to not tarnish the movement with the actions of a few. It's frustrating to be dismissed for your race when trying to help things, but it's only a vocal few that do this. I hung out on an anti-racism board for a little while and learned a few things there about racism and also about activists. There were the horrid vocally abusive ones, who were given free reign on the board, free to spout their abuse of whites (the board moderator was white and allowed this out of a sense of 'recompense for past sins'), but most of those identifying as non-whites were normal humans trying to discuss things rather than spray venom. The thing is, if you let the vocal nasty people taint your opinion of those following the movement, you're falling into a trap again. It's a bit like tarnishing all baptists with the actions of the Westboro church.

The thing to remember is that the author is not promoting a manifesto or calling to action, he's venting. He's frustrated, and he's not creating a culture of oppression with the occasional use of 'dumbwhite' - some commentors in this thread seem to think that this private use of the word in an anonymised article makes it as bad as creating a culture of bigotry in the workplace. Racism isn't a binary on/off.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#377

Post by columbo »

strlen wrote: post #214
columbo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WHO CARES? It unnecessarily adds doubt to the claims being made. If your narrator has an agenda it becomes difficult to trust that narrator.

> It unnecessarily adds doubt to the claims being made. If your narrator has an agenda it becomes difficult to trust that narrator. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic) In brief, saying "X is wrong, because X subscribes to ideology I" is not a logically valid argument. Willing to hear X's argument and consider it on its own merits does not grant legitimacy to I. Th…

To be clear, I'm not dismissing his argument, I was simply answering the question "WHO CARES".

There's a time to vent and a time to make a case. I personally feel that the author would have been better served making a case (EEOC) instead of venting in a public method. Especially since the identities of the author and the company in question are very easy to track down. This could have long term negative consequences for the author, and may make his claim harder if he does decided to take his former employer to court.

YMMV.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#378

Post by Evbn »

victorbstan wrote: post #299
JPKab wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brilliant analysis. I am one of the readers who had deep concern for the truthfulness of these observations. If they are true, then he got screwed, royally, and should sue. Except for the pendant comment. That's just a case of taking yourself too seriously. Yet another nail in the coffin of his credibility.

Are you serious? Or just insensitive? And how many nails are needed until you can safely say he's in his coffin ready to be buried? The issue that I have with the whole "don't even go to college/university, just start a startup" is that most colleges/universities will teach you at least something about gender and racial issues. That's not to say everybody that goes through college doesn't come out racist at the end,…

And you just put a nail in your elitist class warmonger column for insinuating that a college education is needed for someone to be expected to be not racist.

This is getting silly.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#379

Post by Evbn »

jvm wrote: post #330
batgaijin wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to try and hijack this a little, just because I'm afraid it won't be seen anywhere else. I don't have a problem with racist/sexist jokes. I do however have a sever issue with healthcare and quality of education being tied to your parents employment and property ownership. I think that is much, much more terrible, as it not only screws over the poor in general, but in particular it really fucks over black pe…

> the most racist things don't target the race of anyone, just their income level. This is basically a denial that actual racism is a serious problem. I think that's worse than saying the n-word a thousand times. Even if Obamacare gives every black person free health insurance and also a pony, that's not going to make even a tiny dent in the racism that pervades our society, and saying that it will is just spreading…

If Obamacare provides the economic safety net that lifts poor black families into the middle class, and makes healthy (including biological evolutionary indicators like teeth, skin, and hair radiance) and basic-wealthy black people the more common sort of black person someone sees, then yes, it will tend to counteract historical racism.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#380

Post by vacri »

Lukeas14 wrote: post #272
to_jon wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I agree, but some of his content will be a barrier for some people. I'm sure if the tone of the post was milder, most of the comments here would be supportive." -- too typical a response "Peppered throughout the post are cultural signs and signifiers that mark the author as an advocate for a fairly specific set of political and social beliefs." -- completely irrelevant to assessing the facts of the case As a white m…

Regardless of how pissed off he may have been, you don't fight racism with more racism. All that does is exacerbate the situation and hurt your credibility. Calling someone a dumbwhite * might feel good but does nothing for your cause. I've always believed the correct response to racism is to educate. Educate his coworkers on the origin and significance of his necklace and why they shouldn't equate the way he dresses…

A significant part of what you're missing is that the function of the actions of the racist manager is to rob the author of political power. Racism works in some pretty subtle subtle ways - by painting the author as 'that aggressive black guy', the manager has already clipped his wings.

You may have also missed this line: After years of arguments with white men (and white women), watching white men (and white women) move away from me when I start to talk about oppression (i.e. what life as a poor black queer is like), I know when to pick and chose my battles

Can you not see just how exhausting it would be to have to constantly explain and justify yourself?

Post reply on HN