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Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

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Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#41

Post by fragmede »

hrimfaxi wrote: post #9
superkuh wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the parents. I wasn't aware the corporations were responsible for the raising of children. That said, I'm with you on reducing the abstraction of liability that is the purpose of corporations. I just don't think parents not parenting is the reason to do it. I also don't really think parents should be thrown in prison and families destroyed. The use of violent force in this situation, against the CEOs or the parent…

Our parents had problems figuring out how to program the time on the VCR. Technology advances faster than parents can keep up. If someone was selling drugs on the street on the way to school, would we be blaming parents who let their kids walk to school that they should parent better, or would we deal with the drug dealer?

If we think a drug dealer on the way to school is a good analogy, I have to ask; many someones went into a school with guns and shot children. How did we deal with that?

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#42

Post by iamnothere »

vegadw wrote: post #33

There's a natural tension between freedom and protection here. Anyone on HN is aware of all the debate for and against section 230. We're also probably the crowd most vocally against ID verification laws for adult sites or just age verification for non-adult content, like YouTube or Discord. I, personally, am in the "Parents gotta parent" camp, but know that doesn't cover all the problems, plus only addresses childre…

> The services should provide a friends-only mode, and that should be the default.

This isn’t such a bad idea, although maybe it should depend on the type of game. As a kid the only place I played games with random people was Quake servers and Battle.net. This wasn’t really an issue, as there’s not much time to socialize when you’re blowing up your opponent. But Roblox seems to be primarily a social meta-game with many sub-games, so it’s riskier.

It’s a spectrum. On one end you have Second Life and VRChat, which should absolutely have a no kids policy. At the other end you have single player games which are obviously fine. In the middle there’s everything from online Mario Kart games to Counter Strike. Some are probably more ok than others. As it stands Roblox is uncomfortably close to the no-no zone.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#43

Post by waltbosz »

iamnothere wrote: post #13
wslh wrote: post #11

I want to share a small story a close friend told me. His son is eleven. Every Saturday he goes to tennis class. He's good at it, sure, but the important part is that he loves it. One Saturday, though, he refused to go. Why? Because there was a special Roblox event happening at the same time. His father tried reasoning with him, the kid, agrees, a bit reluctantly. But when the father walks into the bar, he sees a doz…

How is this different from a LAN party? I spent countless hours engrossed in DOOM deathmatches and Starcraft games as a kid. I don’t really see the difference. The problem outlined in the article is about moderation of spaces where kids are present. You seem to be trying to draw some broader conclusion that video games are harmful.

The problem is the Roblox games have exclusive timed events that give the children FOMO. So much that they have breakdowns and refuse to do their normally scheduled activities. And it changes their behavior.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#44

Post by fragmede »

herbst wrote: post #21
endymion-light wrote: post #18

I looked at Roblox recently as a nostalgia trip as I was active in the community over a decade ago when I was a kid. Genuinely insane that it's legal. Full dark gambling patterns, insane access. I think the only reason it's not been regulated is that people haven't looked closely, but it's as if someone took the worst of gacha games and decided to base their childrens platform on it.

I am watching YouTubers showing these things for years to the public. Somehow people don't really seem to care at all. Roblox is really really weird.

> Somehow people don't really seem to care at all.

> I am watching YouTubers showing these things for years to the public.

I'm confused, aren't "YouTubers who make videos about the problem" people? They seem to care so much that they've put money, time, and energy into creating videos illustrating the problem.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#45

Post by conception »

vegadw wrote: post #33

There's a natural tension between freedom and protection here. Anyone on HN is aware of all the debate for and against section 230. We're also probably the crowd most vocally against ID verification laws for adult sites or just age verification for non-adult content, like YouTube or Discord. I, personally, am in the "Parents gotta parent" camp, but know that doesn't cover all the problems, plus only addresses childre…

A colleague of mine had the idea that an easy solution for a lot of social media content issues would be any content given by an algorithm is exempt from safe harbor laws. You pick what users see? You’re responsible and liable.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#47

Post by uniq7 »

worldsavior wrote: post #40
bmurphy1976 wrote: post #6

It's a nightmare managing all this stuff. Roblox, Minecraft, Meta Quest services, Fortnite, the list goes on and on. These companies are not helping us either. Thankfully my son and his friends have somehow iterated away from Fortnite. It's no longer cool so they just stopped playing it. That's one less thing I have to worry about.

Thankfully? Why don't you just forbid him to play Fortnite? Sounds like your son doesn't listen to you, and that's a problem.

Has an authority ever forbid you to do something and you still did it?

If so, was it a problem that you didn't listen?

I'm not a parent, but fortnite is not like smoking or drugs, common. If you don't let kids grow over this kind of bad content, they will never become good discriminators.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#48

Post by dylan604 »

Analemma_ wrote: post #16
tyleo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why this is getting downvoted. As another response mentioned, we wouldn't tolerate this in any other industry. If a restaurant served food that harmed people we wouldn't say, "it's on the parents." I don't get why so many folks are willing to say that with harms caused by tech companies. Scale is no excuse either, "at our scale we just can't handle all the content." If anything it makes the problem…

Yes, it's absurd how tech considers "but we're too big" to be a legitimate reason for inaction. That would get handcuffs clapped on you in any other industry. What happened to "too big to fail" being a sign of deep corruption requiring immediate action and breaking up companies?

Really? How many handcuffs were clapped in the Too Big To Fail 2008 financial crisis? Why we think other large corporations with infinite funds would ever face consequences? This forum is funny in how when discussing the failures of tech seem to think it it is isolated from the rest of the corporate world, yet when discussing non-tech corporations are constantly lamenting that the corporate veil of protection is impenetrable.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#49

Post by bstsb »

disclaimer: slightly biased as i've made USD from Roblox

it's really interesting to me seeing the debate around age verification from both sides. many Roblox developers and users seems to think that it's the end of the platform:

> Awesome! We love mandatory identity checks and age verification on every major social platform. Nobody needs privacy online. Thank you Roblox.

> No just no. This won’t work, this is too enforcing on the users and greatly invades our privacy

and then on the other side we have people saying it's a token gesture that doesn't go far enough:

> It could have adopted age verification before a wave of state legislation signaled that it would soon become mandatory anyway

my personal view on the matter is that, while age verification certainly reduces privacy, it was basically the only option left for Roblox to pursue - it's a move that absolutely will reduce child abuse on their platforms, and make it safer for kids to play online.

they also have one of the best privacy policies for age verification around.

(for context, they delete facial geometry immediately and store IDs for 30 days maximum. one alternative, Persona, used to hold IDs for up to six years, and currently have no set time limit on how long they keep other personal information)

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#50

Post by Pet_Ant »

andsoitis wrote: post #10
bmurphy1976 wrote: post #6

It's a nightmare managing all this stuff. Roblox, Minecraft, Meta Quest services, Fortnite, the list goes on and on. These companies are not helping us either. Thankfully my son and his friends have somehow iterated away from Fortnite. It's no longer cool so they just stopped playing it. That's one less thing I have to worry about.

what have they replaced Fortnite with? more physical play or something digital?

Physical play is nigh impossible. It means getting other kid's parents to let them out. And then you need to spend your full-time supervising them. Can't just let them out with their bikes on the streets.

I think the problem is that either you can give children freedom to explore the world, or you can make them accountable for their actions. Can't have both, and parents will protect their kids by not letting them get into trouble.

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