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Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#41

Post by fhd2 »

csomar wrote: post #35
dannylmathews wrote: post #31

The license on this project is pretty confusing. The license at the root of the project links to backend/cc/LICENSE.md which says you need a subscription license to use the code. Can you call it open source if you need a subscription license to run / edit the code?

Yes. Open source doesn’t mean free.

It really does, by any definition I've ever heard. I suppose the authoritative one would be [1].

A common "trick" for commercial open source software is to use a copyleft license, which restricts redistribution as part of commercial products, and to offer a paid license to get around that.

[1]: https://opensource.org/osd

Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#42

Post by hobofan »

turblety wrote: post #38

What is it with these Chat apps having strange and not-real open source licenses? OpenWebUI is the same. Is there something about these chat apps that seems to make them more prone to weird and strange licenses? Just opportunist?

MIT core + "ee" (enterprise edition) commercially licensed extension subdirectory isn't that strange of a occurrence nowadays.

I also wouldn't pin it as chat app specific. Quite a few VC funded open core software has adopted that pattern post ~2020(?): cal.com, Dagster, Gitlab

Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#43

Post by Weves »

dannylmathews wrote: post #31

The license on this project is pretty confusing. The license at the root of the project links to backend/cc/LICENSE.md which says you need a subscription license to use the code. Can you call it open source if you need a subscription license to run / edit the code?

You don't need any subscription to run the code! By default, none of the enterprise code runs (and it can all be completely removed and the app will work as expected). Fully FOSS version here: https://github.com/onyx-dot-app/onyx-foss.

Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#44

Post by martypitt »

dannylmathews wrote: post #31

The license on this project is pretty confusing. The license at the root of the project links to backend/cc/LICENSE.md which says you need a subscription license to use the code. Can you call it open source if you need a subscription license to run / edit the code?

It's not really confusing at all.

Content under backend/ee requires a license, everything else is MIT Expat. Pretty standard stuff.

> Can you call it open source if you need a subscription license to run / edit the code?

MIT is open source, their other stuff isn't. Pretty clear.

Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#45

Post by hobofan »

koakuma-chan wrote: post #34
mritchie712 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

w24, those were different times.

Yeah that's like so long ago. But yeah, good luck competing with ChatGPT.

There are many markets (Europe), and highly regulated industries with air-gapped deployments where the typical players (ChatGPT, MS Copilot) in the field are having a hard time.

On another axis, if you are able to offer BYOK deployments and the customers have huge staff with low usage, it's pretty easy to compete with the big players due to their high per-seat pricing.

Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#46

Post by Weves »

hobofan wrote: post #42
turblety wrote: post #38

What is it with these Chat apps having strange and not-real open source licenses? OpenWebUI is the same. Is there something about these chat apps that seems to make them more prone to weird and strange licenses? Just opportunist?

MIT core + "ee" (enterprise edition) commercially licensed extension subdirectory isn't that strange of a occurrence nowadays. I also wouldn't pin it as chat app specific. Quite a few VC funded open core software has adopted that pattern post ~2020(?): cal.com, Dagster, Gitlab

Yea, the license is modeled after the Gitlab license. All of the core chat/RAG/agent logic is fully MIT, and >99% of deployments of Onyx are using the "community edition"!

Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#47

Post by hobofan »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #18

Sorry, but why use this over oobabooga/sillytavern? Why do we have to yet again poorly copy an oversimplified UI? The value of local models comes from their huge amount of settings/control that they offer. Why must we throw that all away? Yet again, the world waits for good UI/UX for pro/prosumers with AI systems. No one is learning from ComfyUI, Automatic1111, or SillyTavern. No, LM-Studio is not actually prosumer

You are not the target user.

The target customers are enterprises where 70% of the target users have never used an AI system before and have to go through a AI training before being allowed access to the system.

Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#48

Post by scotty79 »

turblety wrote: post #38

What is it with these Chat apps having strange and not-real open source licenses? OpenWebUI is the same. Is there something about these chat apps that seems to make them more prone to weird and strange licenses? Just opportunist?

New tech draws new people. New people have new ideas. Also for licenses.

Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#49

Post by [deleted] »

csomar wrote: post #35
dannylmathews wrote: post #31

The license on this project is pretty confusing. The license at the root of the project links to backend/cc/LICENSE.md which says you need a subscription license to use the code. Can you call it open source if you need a subscription license to run / edit the code?

Yes. Open source doesn’t mean free.

[deleted]

Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#50

Post by martypitt »

_pdp_ wrote: post #21

> We’re building an open-source chat that works As long as you have Pricing on your website your product is not open source in the true spirit of open sourceness. It is open code for sure but it is a business and so incentive is to run it like a business which will conflate with how the project is used by the community. Btw, there is nothing wrong with that but let's be honest here if you get this funded (perhaps it…

> As long as you have Pricing on your website your product is not open source in the true spirit of open sourceness.

It's an MIT license. That IS open source.

If they have a commercial strategy - that's a GoodThing. It means they have a viable strategy for staying in business, and keeping the project maintained.

MIT == OpenSource. Pricing == Sustainable. That's a horse worth backing IMO.

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