Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#41

Post by georgemcbay » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 9:10 PM UTC

cooldeal wrote: post #28

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same brand as open source "free", but access to the Google apps is indeed free.

>but access to the Google apps is indeed free It certainly is not free. Either the OEM who sold the device to you paid off Google for your access(i.e included in the hardware cost you paid the OEM) or you have to violate copyright(along with whoever uploaded them to the host who is vulnerable to a DMCA takedown) to get those apps. Can you find me a legal link to some or any Google apps .apk file(s) to load on to, say…

You are right in that access to the core "gapps" is commercially restricted to whose who have deals in place with Google.

Speaking as a purely practical matter, as an end-used you can easily get "gapps" builds for virtually any Android device though technically you will be violating copyright (unless you are using those "gapps" as a replacement for a 'backup' of the distribution that came with your phone originally).

After a botched cease-and-desist on Cyanongenmod back a few years ago (2009?) Google turns a blind eye to this sort of sharing of gapps. I've never heard of them taking any action against any gapps provider since that whole C&D debacle despite the fact that these files are shared openly all over the place.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#42

Post by drivebyacct2 » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 9:13 PM UTC

cooldeal wrote: post #28

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same brand as open source "free", but access to the Google apps is indeed free.

>but access to the Google apps is indeed free It certainly is not free. Either the OEM who sold the device to you paid off Google for your access(i.e included in the hardware cost you paid the OEM) or you have to violate copyright(along with whoever uploaded them to the host who is vulnerable to a DMCA takedown) to get those apps. Can you find me a legal link to some or any Google apps .apk file(s) to load on to, say…

No. This is not true. It's not free as in freeware or shareware or open source, I already conceded that. But Google does not charge for access to the apps. If you want to package them with your device, all that they require is that you talk with them and ensure you pass the compatibility toolkit.

OEMs do not pay Google in exchange for bundling Google Apps.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#43

Post by dpark » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 9:27 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #38

potatolicious wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, if Apple opened up iOS to OEM licensees, but made clear that they were still going to ship their own devices? Who in the blue hell wants to go toe to toe with Apple on hardware? Granted, you'd still have a few (insane) OEMs willing to cough up the money to try, but mostly on the notion that they will convert a portion of the coveted iOS userbase to their brand - a userbase that doesn't exist in WinPhone lan…

iPhone is a relatively high-end smartphone. There is room for lower-end iOS phones in this hypothetical scenario.

I believe Apple is aware of that, which is why they currently sell not only the iPhone 5 but the iPhone 4S and iPhone 4 as well. Attacking the "lower-end iOS" market would still be toe-to-toe with Apple.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#44

Post by dpark » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 9:35 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #39

eckyptang wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Got aa 710 and an 800 here. Nice phones for the money.

I was really interested in the 920 until I saw that it has capacitive hardware buttons. Right now I have a Samsung Focus, and when someone else grabs my phone to look at a picture, I have to do the awkward "no don't hold it there, hold it here, oh no you touched one of the buttons here give it back while I figure out which one you touched now don't hold it there again" dance. That's embarrassing to me and embarrassin…

> Not touching any phone with capacitive buttons ever again.

I think that limits you to iOS.

> I'll be upgrading to the nicest WP8 device with actual, real buttons.

I don't think there are any WP8 devices currently announced that have only non-capacitive buttons. The Samsung ATIV S has physical "Windows" button, but the other two face buttons are still capacitive.

This is an interesting point, though. I've never heard of this complaint on Windows Phone or Android, but I can see how it could be an issue.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#45

Post by cdh » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 9:55 PM UTC

georgemcbay wrote: post #41

cooldeal wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but access to the Google apps is indeed free It certainly is not free. Either the OEM who sold the device to you paid off Google for your access(i.e included in the hardware cost you paid the OEM) or you have to violate copyright(along with whoever uploaded them to the host who is vulnerable to a DMCA takedown) to get those apps. Can you find me a legal link to some or any Google apps .apk file(s) to load on to, say…

You are right in that access to the core "gapps" is commercially restricted to whose who have deals in place with Google. Speaking as a purely practical matter, as an end-used you can easily get "gapps" builds for virtually any Android device though technically you will be violating copyright (unless you are using those "gapps" as a replacement for a 'backup' of the distribution that came with your phone originally).…

They definitely wouldn't turn a blind eye to an OEM distributing them illegally, though. OEMs shipping Android phones pay Google licensing for the Play Store, Gmail app, etc. From what I understand, most Android OEMs also pay Microsoft royalties per handset.

In other words, these are definitely not free to the end user, the cost is just incorporated into the overall price of the phone.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#46

Post by mtgx » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 9:56 PM UTC

IanDrake wrote: post #26

potatolicious wrote: post #2

If true, this signals a huge shift in WinPhone strategy. Up until Microsoft's (ostensible) goal has been to secure a place for a proprietary, commercial OS that runs on OEM hardware (pretty much the Windows model on mobile). Microsoft jumping in with their own devices would probably signal the end of that, and the whole business will become much more Apple-like (vertically integrated, no OEMs). I can't imagine an OEM…

>I can't imagine an OEM wanting to sleep in Microsoft's bed when they're going toe to toe with the people who build the OS themselves. So, are you saying if Apple opened up and allowed OEMs to license iOS, no one would sign up? I think every phone maker would jump on that.

Are you saying WP is on the same level of popularity as iOS? It's ridiculous to even compare them like that.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#47

Post by fidotron » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 9:57 PM UTC

georgemcbay wrote: post #40

potatolicious wrote: post #2

If true, this signals a huge shift in WinPhone strategy. Up until Microsoft's (ostensible) goal has been to secure a place for a proprietary, commercial OS that runs on OEM hardware (pretty much the Windows model on mobile). Microsoft jumping in with their own devices would probably signal the end of that, and the whole business will become much more Apple-like (vertically integrated, no OEMs). I can't imagine an OEM…

"If true, this signals a huge shift in WinPhone strategy." This is a huge shift in their phone strategy, but I don't find it particularly surprising post-Surface-announce. If you asked me a year ago if Microsoft were more likely to produce their own hybrid laptop/tablet or phone I'd have said phone in a heartbeat and I'd have thought you crazy for even suggesting Microsoft would build a laptop. There are far fewer se…

I would argue MS needed to disrupt the laptop space more than the phone one. The disparity in quality between Apple and the MS ecosystem is more pronounced in laptopland than with the phones, but that does say more about how bad most PC laptops are.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#48

Post by mtgx » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 9:57 PM UTC

cabbeer wrote: post #35

mtgx wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nokia's "all-in" strategy with WP, means it's "bye-bye Nokia" if Microsoft makes their own phone, though. The others can and will still rely on Android for the bulk of their sales anyway. What will Nokia rely on? Nothing.

If that means Nokia will reconsider android, then I think it's a win win.

Not sure if they can. Depends how long the exclusive deal (reckless thing from the beginning) with Microsoft lasts. It might be 5 years.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#49

Post by mtgx » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 9:58 PM UTC

moistgorilla wrote: post #4

I don't see a reason why to be honest. The lumia seems great.

Because Microsoft wants to enter the hardware business, and every manufacturer who can't see that Microsoft wants to compete with them is simply naive.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#50

Post by zmmmmm » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 10:49 PM UTC

Microsoft is betting the farm on Windows 8 and it makes sense to me that they can leave nothing to chance. They have to have a plan B if hardware partners fail to come through. A company as big as Microsoft simply cannot pin their whole existence on a bunch of third party OEMs, especially when they are deeply in bed and arguably now far more invested with a bitter competitor. I would honestly expect there would be at least a skunk works project if nothing else. The news that the device is being tested, however, means it's come out of the skunk works - essentially, plan B has been "activated".

What I read from this, combined with the recent close partnering with HTC, is that MS is now heavily hedging their bets against Nokia failing, which can only mean they, with all their internal knowledge of their partnership with Nokia, now have strong doubts about whether Nokia itself is viable, or at least, viable enough to carry their flagship forward. So I wouldn't necessary read too much into this about the wider Windows8 strategy, but I'd read a lot of bad things for Nokia from it.