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What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

nytimes.com

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Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#131

Post by creata »

quitit wrote: post #21
ArcHound wrote: post #3

One of the more disturbing things I read this year was the my boyfriend is AI subreddit. I genuinely can't fathom what is going on there. Seems so wrong, yet no one there seems to care. I worry about the damage caused by these things on distressed people. What can be done?

There are plenty of reasons why having a chatbot partner is a bad idea (especially for young people), but here's just a few: - The sycophantic and unchallenging behaviours of chatbots leaves a person unconditioned for human interactions. Real relationships have friction, from this we develop important interpersonal skills such as setting boundaries, settling disagreements, building compromise, standing up for oneself…

> The sycophantic and unchallenging behaviours of chatbots leaves a person unconditioned for human interactions.

To be honest, the alternative for a good chunk of these users is no interaction at all, and that sort of isolation doesn't prepare you for human interaction either.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#132

Post by creata »

namanyayg wrote: post #117
AI_rumination wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love your thoughts about needing input from others! In Autistic / ADHD circles, the lack of input from other people, and the feedback of thoughts being amplified by oneself is called rumination. It can happen for many multiple ways-- lack of social discussion, drugs, etc. AI psychosis is just rumination, but the bot expands and validates your own ideas, making them appear to be validated by others. For vulnerable peo…

Is this clearly AI-generated comment part of the joke?

The comment seems less clearly-written (e.g., "It can happen for many multiple ways") than how a chatbot would phrase it.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#133

Post by fragmede »

danny_codes wrote: post #124
hereme888 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When valid reasons are given. Not when OpenAI's legal enemy tries to scare people by claiming adults aren't responsible for themselves, including their own use of computers.

I mean we could also allow companies to helicopter-drop crack cocaine in the streets. The big tech companies have been pretending their products aren't addictive for decades and it's become a farce. We regulate drugs because they cause a lot of individual and societal harm. I think at this point its very obvious that social media + chatbots have the same capacity for harm.

> We regulate drugs because they cause a lot of individual and societal harm.

That's a very naive opinion on what the war on drugs has evolved to.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#134

Post by creata »

jmcgough wrote: post #35
belval wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I worry about the damage caused by these things on distressed people. What can be done? Why? We are gregarious animals, we need social connections. ChatGPT has guardrails that keep this mostly safe and helps with the loneliness epidemic. It's not like people doing this are likely thriving socially in the first place, better with ChatGPT than on some forum à la 4chan that will radicalize them. I feel like this will…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_linked_to_chatbots If you read through that list and dismiss it as people who were already mentally ill or more susceptible to this... that's what Dr. K (psychiatrist) assumed too until he looked at some recent studies: https://youtu.be/MW6FMgOzklw?si=JgpqLzMeaBLGuAAE Clickbait title, but well researched and explained.

Fyi, the `si` query parameter is used by Google for tracking purposes and can be removed.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#135

Post by FloorEgg »

jamiek88 wrote: post #101
ouaihomme wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even a real human can repeat ideas back at you in a conversation, but there's still some minimal level of vetting or filtering or rephrasing by another human mind. The mental corruption due to surrounding oneself with sycophantic yes men is historically well documented.

Excellent point. It’s bad for humans when humans do it! Imagine the perfect sycophant, never tires or dies, never slips, never pulls a bad facial expression, can immediately swerve their thoughts to match yours with no hiccups. It was a danger for tyrants and it’s now a danger for the lonely.

South Park isn't for everyone, but they covered this pretty well recently with Randy Marsh going on a sycophant bender.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#136

Post by creata »

codebje wrote: post #64
belval wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I worry about the damage caused by these things on distressed people. What can be done? Why? We are gregarious animals, we need social connections. ChatGPT has guardrails that keep this mostly safe and helps with the loneliness epidemic. It's not like people doing this are likely thriving socially in the first place, better with ChatGPT than on some forum à la 4chan that will radicalize them. I feel like this will…

Using ChatGPT to numb social isolation is akin to using alcohol to numb anxiety. ChatGPT isn't a social connection: LLMs don't connect with you. There is no relationship growth, just an echo chamber with one occupant. Maybe it's a little healthier for society overall if people become withdrawn to the point of suicide by spiralling deeper into loneliness with an AI chat instead of being radicalised to mass murder by f…

> social connections will form whether you want them to or not

Not true for all people or all circumstances. People are happy to leave you in the corner while they talk amongst themselves.

> it'll seem like the only answer is more numbing

For many people, the only answer is more numbing.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#137

Post by gonzobonzo »

ArcHound wrote: post #3

One of the more disturbing things I read this year was the my boyfriend is AI subreddit. I genuinely can't fathom what is going on there. Seems so wrong, yet no one there seems to care. I worry about the damage caused by these things on distressed people. What can be done?

I've watched people using dating apps, and I've heard stories from friends. Frankly, AI boyfriends/girlfriends look a lot healthier to me than a lot of the stuff currently happening with dating at the moment.

Treating objects like people isn't nearly as bad as treating people like objects.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#138

Post by palmotea »

gonzobonzo wrote: post #137
ArcHound wrote: post #3

One of the more disturbing things I read this year was the my boyfriend is AI subreddit. I genuinely can't fathom what is going on there. Seems so wrong, yet no one there seems to care. I worry about the damage caused by these things on distressed people. What can be done?

I've watched people using dating apps, and I've heard stories from friends. Frankly, AI boyfriends/girlfriends look a lot healthier to me than a lot of the stuff currently happening with dating at the moment. Treating objects like people isn't nearly as bad as treating people like objects.

> Frankly, AI boyfriends/girlfriends look a lot healthier to me than a lot of the stuff currently happening with dating at the moment.

Astoundingly unhealthy is still astoundingly unhealthy, even if you compare it to something even worse.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#139

Post by creata »

hereme888 wrote: post #94

This is ridiculous. The NYT, who is a huge legal enemy of OpenAI, publishes an article that uses scare tactics, to manipulate public opinion against OpenAI, by basically accusing them that "their software is unsafe for people with mental issues, or children", which is a bonkers ridiculous accusation given that ChatGPT users are adults that need to take ownership of their own use of the internet. What's the difference…

> What's the difference than an adult becoming affected by some subreddit, or even the "dark web", or 4chan forum, etc.

4chan - Actual humans generate messages, and can (in theory) be held liable for those messages.

ChatGPT - A machine generates messages, so the people who developed that machine should be held liable for those messages.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#140

Post by SoftTalker »

chubot wrote: post #86
stavros wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when you tell it to not coddle you, it just says something cringeworthy like "ok, the gloves are off here's the raw deal, with New Yorker honesty:" and proceeds to feed you a ton of patronizing bullshit. It's extremely annoying.

I have definitely experienced the sycophancy ... and LLMs have sometimes repeating talking points from real estate agents, like "you the buyer doesn't pay for an agent; the seller pays". I correct it, and it says "sorry you're right, I was repeating a talking point from an interested party" --- BUT actually a crazy thing is that -- with simple honest questions as prompts -- I found that Claude is able to explain the…

The agent is there to skim 3% of the sale price in exchange for doing nothing. Now you know all there is to know about realtors.
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