This was apparently a Linde installation custom built for TSMC in Arizona.[1] Nitrogen, oxygen, and argon are extracted from air on-site and purified. That's Linde's primary business; liquefying and distilling air. This isn't some little local company or a company operating outside their area of expertise. Those gases are storeable, so it's surprising there wasn't enough tank capacity to deal with outages. The site p…
Linde is huge. They can produce and offer all gases in all available purity classes.
TSMC Arizona outage saw fab halt, Apple wafers scrapped
41–50 of 106 posts
Re: TSMC Arizona outage saw fab halt, Apple wafers scrapped
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good idea for a Factorio mod? A new failure mode resets output progress back to zero if you lose power or some other input while crafting. You could design circuit networks to cut power to non-essential systems so the rest of the factory can keep producing.
Power brownouts are pretty rare outside of the very early game. It's too easy and cheap to massively over produce power for that to really harm players outside the early game so I don't think there'd be much interest. Usually brownouts rapidly develop into full blown blackouts and black restarts as your miners reduce output during the brownout often leading to a reduction in incoming fuel leading to even less power b…
Suppose you can start production with only 1 of each input required for a recipe, but to keep it going you need to keep feeding all of the inputs to finish it. If any of them run out, then the recipe fails, you lose the inputs, and the machine stalls.
This works better for high latency recipes (>10s) with lots of inputs, like low density structure, modules, and atomic bombs.
Re: TSMC Arizona outage saw fab halt, Apple wafers scrapped
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good idea for a Factorio mod? A new failure mode resets output progress back to zero if you lose power or some other input while crafting. You could design circuit networks to cut power to non-essential systems so the rest of the factory can keep producing.
Isn't that what spoilage is?
Re: TSMC Arizona outage saw fab halt, Apple wafers scrapped
#44seems like what is often downplayed or silent on American media is the cultural mismatch between TSMC taiwanese engineers and their american counterparts so it always comes to those out of the loop as a bit of a surprise but from what I've read from individual Taiwanese workers and their feedback its clear that there is significant regret from one side. and it doesn't seem to limited to just TSMC but another large co…
Perhaps if the US workers earned OT like TW workers do, the "culture" gap would shrink.
Re: TSMC Arizona outage saw fab halt, Apple wafers scrapped
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Linde is huge. They can produce and offer all gases in all available purity classes.
Is this an ad?
(joke off, it's probably not an add, but they were excited to share the reason you see Linde on all sorts of gas tanks all over the place. It's actually quite common and if you see it once you see it everywhere. )
Re: TSMC Arizona outage saw fab halt, Apple wafers scrapped
#46seems like what is often downplayed or silent on American media is the cultural mismatch between TSMC taiwanese engineers and their american counterparts so it always comes to those out of the loop as a bit of a surprise but from what I've read from individual Taiwanese workers and their feedback its clear that there is significant regret from one side. and it doesn't seem to limited to just TSMC but another large co…
There are like half a dozen semiconductor manufacturers in Phoenix that were here before TSMC arrived. There's a robust pipeline from ASU to these same manufacturers. Can we please just stop with the nonsensical notion that "Americans don't know how to fabricate semiconductors"?
Think about how Intel, who pioneered the know how, can't build cutting edge nodes in the levels that they need to make it profitable.
IBM had to sell their fabs to cater to the whims of "shareholders".
It's the greed of stockholders that you need to blame.
Re: TSMC Arizona outage saw fab halt, Apple wafers scrapped
#47seems like what is often downplayed or silent on American media is the cultural mismatch between TSMC taiwanese engineers and their american counterparts so it always comes to those out of the loop as a bit of a surprise but from what I've read from individual Taiwanese workers and their feedback its clear that there is significant regret from one side. and it doesn't seem to limited to just TSMC but another large co…
Re: TSMC Arizona outage saw fab halt, Apple wafers scrapped
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
It didn’t happen, but the facilities team at the fab where I worked was seriously considering installing a flywheel to cover power bumps. What I don’t get about this story is how this actually happened. All our process gasses were out in a tank farm and we knew how much pressure we had. We would have stopped the line if there wasn’t enough to proceed. Were they separating air onsite or something?
Yes, Linde has an onsite plant and is building two more. For some processes, stopping will botch the wafer. In the event of a gas shortage, do plants plan which lines to take down first, and which lines should complete a process step?
In the case of a power interruption at the fab, consequences were highly dependent on the equipment and the unit process. A prolonged power interruption to diffusion was the worst case scenario. You’d have 150 wafers in the furnace, and any significant deviation from the nominal temperature profile meant they were all scrap. Worse, if the furnace cooled off, you had to scrap the quartz boat the wafers rode in, too. Other processes had a smaller blast radius but were even more of a headache to disposition. Implant, you’d lose beam and probably lose vacuum too. Then the wafer in the chamber would be dusted and in an indeterminate state, and the rest of the wafers you’d have to sleuth out whether they were implanted or not. Sometimes you’d have a lot sitting in the end station and it wouldn’t be clear whether or not it had been run at all. At least in photolithography you could tell whether or not a wafer was patterned by looking at it.
Re: TSMC Arizona outage saw fab halt, Apple wafers scrapped
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are like half a dozen semiconductor manufacturers in Phoenix that were here before TSMC arrived. There's a robust pipeline from ASU to these same manufacturers. Can we please just stop with the nonsensical notion that "Americans don't know how to fabricate semiconductors"?
its not that the USA can't produce semi-conductors. Its that semi-conductor production, at TSMC's scale (both in terms of number of units, yield rates, and depth) currently requires highly skilled workers to work a lot of their hours to "baby sit" the wafer production. Maybe there is a world where TSMC can hire enough skilled workers and optimize processes enabling people to go home at 5p, but that is not currently t…
The US is going to have to heavily subsidize the payroll of tens of thousands of very accomplished EEs/etc to make this work. By doing that they will also wreck the HW part of SV.
Re: TSMC Arizona outage saw fab halt, Apple wafers scrapped
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't that what spoilage is?
I thought of spoilage as a mechanic that punishes overproduction.
Surely the reality might be much more complex (like... the yield/quality drop by time function?)