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Implications of AI to schools

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Re: Implications of AI to schools

#71

Post by yannyu »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #63

I think legacy schooling just needs to be reworked. Kids should be doing way more projects that demonstrate the integration of knowledge and skills, rather than focusing so much energy on testing and memorization. There's probably a small core of things that really must be fully integrated and memorized, but for everything else you should just give kids harder projects which they're expected to solve by leveraging al…

As much as I hated schooling, I do want to say that there are parts of learning that are simply hard. There are parts that you can build enthusiasm for with project work and prioritizing for engagement. But there are many things that people should learn that will require drudgery to learn and won't excite all people.

Doing derivatives, learning the periodic table, basic language and alphabet skills, playing an instrument are foundational skills that will require deliberate practice to learn, something that isn't typically part of project based learning. At some point in education with most fields, you will have to move beyond concepts and do some rote memorization and repetition of principles in order to get to higher level concepts. You can't gamify your way out of education, despite our best attempts to do so.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#72

Post by SunshineTheCat »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #63

I think legacy schooling just needs to be reworked. Kids should be doing way more projects that demonstrate the integration of knowledge and skills, rather than focusing so much energy on testing and memorization. There's probably a small core of things that really must be fully integrated and memorized, but for everything else you should just give kids harder projects which they're expected to solve by leveraging al…

You are 100% right on this. There is a reason school is so vastly different from the process most people follow when learning something on their own.

Doing rather than memorizing outdated facts in a textbook.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#73

Post by mettamage »

ubj wrote: post #7

One of my students recently came to me with an interesting dilemma. His sister had written (without AI tools) an essay for another class, and her teacher told her that an "AI detection tool" had classified it as having been written by AI with "100% confidence". He was going to give her a zero on the assignment. Putting aside the ludicrous confidence score, the student's question was: how could his sister convince the…

I would screencast the whole thing and then tell my professor that we can watch a bit together.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#74

Post by rkagerer »

ubj wrote: post #7

One of my students recently came to me with an interesting dilemma. His sister had written (without AI tools) an essay for another class, and her teacher told her that an "AI detection tool" had classified it as having been written by AI with "100% confidence". He was going to give her a zero on the assignment. Putting aside the ludicrous confidence score, the student's question was: how could his sister convince the…

Guess you have to videotape or screen-record yourself writing it. Oh what a world we've created :-S.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#75

Post by charcircuit »

nathan_compton wrote: post #65
charcircuit wrote: post #13

This doesn't adress the point that AI can replace going to school. AI can be your perfect personal tutor to help you learn thing 1:1. Needing to have a teacher and prove to them that you know what they teached will become a legacy concept. That we have an issue of AI cheating at school is in my eyes a temporary issue.

Snap out of it. This is the best advice I can give you.

Snap out of what? I use chatgpt for learning every day.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#76

Post by inerte »

rkagerer wrote: post #74
ubj wrote: post #7

One of my students recently came to me with an interesting dilemma. His sister had written (without AI tools) an essay for another class, and her teacher told her that an "AI detection tool" had classified it as having been written by AI with "100% confidence". He was going to give her a zero on the assignment. Putting aside the ludicrous confidence score, the student's question was: how could his sister convince the…

Guess you have to videotape or screen-record yourself writing it. Oh what a world we've created :-S.

You mean you'll prompt Sora to create a video of you writing the essay :)

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#77

Post by jancsika »

ubj wrote: post #7

One of my students recently came to me with an interesting dilemma. His sister had written (without AI tools) an essay for another class, and her teacher told her that an "AI detection tool" had classified it as having been written by AI with "100% confidence". He was going to give her a zero on the assignment. Putting aside the ludicrous confidence score, the student's question was: how could his sister convince the…

Seems like this could be practically addressed by teachers adopting the TSA's randomized screening. That is, roll some dice to figure out which student on a given assignment comes in either for the oral discussion or-- perhaps in higher grades-- to write the essay in realtime.

It should be way easier than TSA's goal because you don't need to stop cheaters. You instead just need to ensure that you seed skills into a minimal number of achievers so that the rest of the kids see what the real target of education looks like. Kids try their best not to learn, but when the need kicks in they learn way better spontaneously from their peers than any other method.

Of course, this all assumes an effective pre-K reading program in the first place.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#78

Post by CamperBob2 »

patrickmay wrote: post #50
CamperBob2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, not being a turkey SME, what's the downside to positioning the turkey that way?

Most turkeys of my acquaintance would not fit into a toaster oven without some percussive assistance.

I see, I overlooked the 'toaster' part. That's a good world model benchmark question for models and a good reading comprehension question for humans. :-P

GPT 5.1 Pro made the same mistake ("Face the legs away from the door.") Claude Sonnet 4.5 agreed but added "Note: Most toaster ovens max out around 10-12 pounds for a whole turkey."

Gemini 3 acknowledged that toaster ovens are usually very compact and that the legs shouldn't be positioned where they will touch the glass door. When challenged, it hand-waved something to the effect of "Well, some toaster ovens are large countertop convection units that can hold up to a 12-pound turkey." When asked for a brand and model number of such an oven, it backtracked and admitted that no toaster oven would be large enough.

Changing the prompt to explicitly specify a 12-pound turkey yielded good answers ("A 12-pound turkey won't fit in a toaster oven - most max out at 4-6 pounds for poultry. Attempting this would be a fire hazard and result in dangerously uneven cooking," from Sonnet.)

So, progress, but not enough.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#79

Post by soVeryTired »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #44
phh wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

80% is catastrophic though. In a classroom of 30 all honest pupils, 6 will get a 0 mark because the software says its AI?

80% accuracy could mean 0 false negatives and 20% false positives. My point is that accuracy is a terrible metric here and sensitivity, specificity tell us much more relevant information to the task at hand. In that formulation, a specificity < 1 is going to have false positives and it isn't fair to those students to have to prove their innocence.

That's more like the false positive rate and false negative rate.

If we're being literal, accuracy is (number correct guesses) / (total number of guesses). Maybe the folks at turnitin don't actually mean 'accuracy', but if they're selling an AI/ML product they should at least know their metrics.

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