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France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

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Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#171

Post by bigyabai »

this_user wrote: post #151
dagi3d wrote: post #110

so, they are basically confirming Android and Apple have their backdoors as no arrests or seizures on that matter have taken place

Not really. It's one thing trying to bully a relatively small FOSS project, it's quite something else to take on one of the world's biggest companies that can afford a literal army of lawyers and that also has the power to have the US government intervene on their behalf.

> that also has the power to have the US government intervene on their behalf.

This would seem to be a weakness, if your goal is using American clout to persecute malware manufacturers: https://www.securityweek.com/apple-suddenly-drops-nso-group-...

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#172

Post by moffkalast »

cedws wrote: post #130

Remember when they arrested Pavel Durov? I don't buy their official reasoning. Dear European friends, our leaders are tightening the screws. If we don't make our voices heard this is only going to get worse. https://x.com/durov/status/1976420399970701543

You know I didn't use to understand libertarians, but after years of watching boundaries being overstepped again and again I think I see the appeal of burning it all down and living in a cabin in the woods.

Like, in Europe we already live in a completely safe society in historical and geographic terms, what more do you fucking want? Security is beyond a laughable excuse for things like chat control. Power tripping elitists will never be happy until they have the entire population under 24/7 camera surveillance and can read every thought in our heads as it occurs. If you make crime impossible, you make free will impossible.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#173

Post by immibis »

schoen wrote: post #86
MYEUHD wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is in third post in the thread: https://mamot.fr/@LaQuadrature/115581775986937247 > Interviewed, she warns that she will “not stop pursuing publishers if links are discovered with a criminal organization and they [GrapheneOS] do not cooperate with justice.”

Did "links" mean "a criminal organization is involved in the project" or "a criminal organization is using the technology"?

Probably the former. SkyECC, Encrochat, etc, were found to be deliberately sold to nontechnical drug lords for large amounts of money - as in, the project leads went out searching for drug lords and selling phones to them individually and offered to sell them 100 phones for $200 per month per phone. Drug empires have that sort of money. And they didn't sell to anyone else since nobody else has that sort of money.

It seems unlikely that GrapheneOS is the same way, since it's free, but you never know - maybe it is made for drug lords, and giving it away to the rest of us is just for plausible deniability.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#174

Post by logicchains »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #101
konmok wrote: post #71

I think your devices should have government-mandated backdoors if and only if you are a public servant. I don't understand why private citizens are held to higher standards of conduct than politicians and cops.

I've been saying this for years: the more power you have the higher standard you should be held in. In most societies on the planet it's the other way around.

> In most societies on the planet it's the other way around.

Obviously, because the ones with power make the laws.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#176

Post by JumpCrisscross »

lucideer wrote: post #127
konmok wrote: post #71

I think your devices should have government-mandated backdoors if and only if you are a public servant. I don't understand why private citizens are held to higher standards of conduct than politicians and cops.

> if you are a public servant. I don't understand why private citizens are held to higher standards of conduct than politicians and cops. Last time I checked, politicians and cops are private citizens... Wherever you stand on this, I can't understand the justification for this "one rule for thee" position.

> politicians and cops are private citizens

You may be confusing the civilian/military distinction with private citizens versus public officials. (A delineation American cops fuck with.)

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#177

Post by lazide »

konmok wrote: post #71

I think your devices should have government-mandated backdoors if and only if you are a public servant. I don't understand why private citizens are held to higher standards of conduct than politicians and cops.

Why would politicians and cops want to be held (actually) to a higher standard?

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#178

Post by p0w3n3d »

deno wrote: post #126
nabakin wrote: post #6

Google Translate link: https://translate.google.com/translate?tl=en&hl=en&u=https:/... Additional context: https://grapheneos.social/deck/@GrapheneOS/11557599710445618... https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115583866253016416 https://grapheneos.social/@LaQuadrature@mamot.fr/11558177594... https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115589833471347871 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115594002434998739

Too bad Google Translate doesn't have a subscription to Le Parisien. https://archive.is/wW7N6

Oh! It's about drug trafficking. Then I have nothing to hide. Please root and backdoor my phone. And also give the keys to all the hackers around the world...

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#179

Post by fencepost »

perihelions wrote: post #95
maelito wrote: post #63

The linked article from Le Parisien (a big French billionaire-owned newspaper) is quite nuanced. It gives the police's view on narco-trafic crime, but also Graphene's take : "Criminals and traffickers also use knives." This organization, which is not a company but a foundation, emphasizes that its solution is used by ordinary people who dislike how apps and operating systems handle their data. It adds that if crimina…

I didn't read it[0] as being particularly nuanced. I thought it was a fact-loose, extremist hitpiece against FOSS, containing howlers such as > "Particularité de GraphèneOS : on peut se le procurer autant sur le darknet que sur des sites grand public." ⇒ "A distinctive feature of GrapheneOS is that it can be obtained both on the darknet and on mainstream websites." Quoting "both sides" (so to speak) doesn't automatic…

Ah, so it's kind of like saying "A distinctive feature of Renault vehicles is that they can be purchased both with cash or through regular financing."

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#180

Post by theideaofcoffee »

konmok wrote: post #71

I think your devices should have government-mandated backdoors if and only if you are a public servant. I don't understand why private citizens are held to higher standards of conduct than politicians and cops.

As much as I want to agree with you, no, backdoors for them mean backdoors for everyone else. It's all or nothing. Now, they should be held to a higher standard, and face stiffer penalty than the regular prole because they should be the example-setters.

Do better policing (and that doesn't include trying to backdoor devices), but backdoors aren't the answer.

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