There were many decades where phones didn't have back doors. Now, it's the opposite case in the most dystopian way. It's concerning that all phones are required to have back doors for law enforcement and the enforcement is severe. I know several people who have a corrupt "cop they know" that they can regularly contact for favors. Why is it so out of the ordinary to distrust law enforcement when they have these tools?
France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors
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Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors
#92[flagged]
For contrast, you can imagine how this debate between a private OS developer and the government would go in a non-democratic country. Or, you don't even have to imagine, because examples are not hard to find.
> non-democratic country
My guess is there will be no debate... That said, we must acknowledge even having this debate is a positive step.
Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors
#93Google Translate link: https://translate.google.com/translate?tl=en&hl=en&u=https:/... Additional context: https://grapheneos.social/deck/@GrapheneOS/11557599710445618... https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115583866253016416 https://grapheneos.social/@LaQuadrature@mamot.fr/11558177594... https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115589833471347871 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115594002434998739
Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is in third post in the thread: https://mamot.fr/@LaQuadrature/115581775986937247 > Interviewed, she warns that she will “not stop pursuing publishers if links are discovered with a criminal organization and they [GrapheneOS] do not cooperate with justice.”
Did "links" mean "a criminal organization is involved in the project" or "a criminal organization is using the technology"?
Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors
#95The linked article from Le Parisien (a big French billionaire-owned newspaper) is quite nuanced. It gives the police's view on narco-trafic crime, but also Graphene's take : "Criminals and traffickers also use knives." This organization, which is not a company but a foundation, emphasizes that its solution is used by ordinary people who dislike how apps and operating systems handle their data. It adds that if crimina…
> "Particularité de GraphèneOS : on peut se le procurer autant sur le darknet que sur des sites grand public." ⇒ "A distinctive feature of GrapheneOS is that it can be obtained both on the darknet and on mainstream websites."
Quoting "both sides" (so to speak) doesn't automatically create a thoughtful dialog.
[0] https://archive.is/20251119082524/https://www.leparisien.fr/... (tr. "Google Pixel and GrapheneOS: drug traffickers' secret weapon for protecting their data from the police")
Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors
#96Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors
#97The linked article from Le Parisien (a big French billionaire-owned newspaper) is quite nuanced. It gives the police's view on narco-trafic crime, but also Graphene's take : "Criminals and traffickers also use knives." This organization, which is not a company but a foundation, emphasizes that its solution is used by ordinary people who dislike how apps and operating systems handle their data. It adds that if crimina…
GrapheneOS and its systems are - you can walk through history and see that they're deliberately working on systems that defeat law enforcements efforts of collecting data from seized devices and tracking criminal networks.
This is a massive difference - even for knives and cars, you'd get into some hot water (or outright illegal behaviour) if you build them with express purpose to make them hard to find and track by law enforcement. Try making a company that focuses on cars that hide its license plates from the police and you'll see how far that will go.
This is one thing that GrapheneOS, Signal and others will need to at some point reckon with - the fact that they deliberately work at making law enforcements work harder and provide effective cover for criminals will get them into hot water. And I don't think population will stand at their side when they find that they've been helping CSAM traffickers hide their loot.
Having all that anti-governmental rhethoric won't end well for longerm survivability of these projects - which sucks for all of us.
Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors
#98https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115589833471347871 > The FBI ran a sting operation in Europe where they created their own 'secure' phone and messaging platform. Their OS used portions of our code and was heavily marketed as being GrapheneOS or based on GrapheneOS. So how do we know GrapheneOS itself isn't a honeypot? It's run by a mystery org and heavily marketed as being a secure platform. https://en.wikipedia…
The honeypot run by the FBI was closed source and that's why they could do it. while this is open source, which would make it much harder.
Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors
#99https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115589833471347871 > The FBI ran a sting operation in Europe where they created their own 'secure' phone and messaging platform. Their OS used portions of our code and was heavily marketed as being GrapheneOS or based on GrapheneOS. So how do we know GrapheneOS itself isn't a honeypot? It's run by a mystery org and heavily marketed as being a secure platform. https://en.wikipedia…
The honeypot run by the FBI was closed source and that's why they could do it. while this is open source, which would make it much harder.
Or, phrased differently, how much independent auditing is graphene OS subjected to?
Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors
#100I think your devices should have government-mandated backdoors if and only if you are a public servant. I don't understand why private citizens are held to higher standards of conduct than politicians and cops.