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Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

bbc.com

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Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#371

Post by brabel »

phantasmish wrote: post #246
brabel wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn’t want to destroy Taiwan , it wants to reunite with it like it did with other territories that had been taken by foreign powers, like happened to Hong Kong and Macau. Taiwan was occupied by Japan and then never went back to being China after the Japanese were defeated because the Chinese Party that was defeated in the Revolution fled to the Island and never accepted the PRC as legit government in China. S…

There’s definitely something embarrassing going on, and it starts but does not end with confusing destruction of a state with destruction of… I’m not even sure what you had in mind. The land? The infrastructure? Taiwan’s democracy is absolutely threatened with destruction by a totalitarian superpower, that wasn’t in any way incorrect or misleading, and that’s how the GP post phrased it. Its state is threatened with d…

Where are you from? Did you know Taiwan is not recognized as a state independent of China by Europe, the USA, Japan and nearly every other country with the exception of 12 small countries?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...

You want it to be a state but your own country says it’s not one most likely. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#372

Post by krior »

boringg wrote: post #133
krior wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also claim that the Taiwan-island is part of their territory. Since Its currently full of taiwanese people and China holds regular military exercises around that island an invasion does not seem far-fetched.

It may not be far fetched but it would absolutely be a self inflicted wound to the PRC. Galvanizing global concern towards china.

That did not stop russia.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#375

Post by pyrale »

fngjdflmdflg wrote: post #356
tdeck wrote: post #265

Why are all the comments here so weird? It's like people saw (but didn't read) an article entitled "Man Opens a Taqueria in his Hometown" and the only responses are 1) Why didn't he open it in my hometown? This location isn't convenient for me. 2) Wouldn't it be better for someone else to open a taqueria instead? My cousin is looking for work. Shouldn't we be putting resources into helping him open a restaurant inste…

Because commenters outside Japan may end up buying products containing chips made in Japan. If it was built in let's say France people would be thinking less about potential invasions. Just as "obviously Japan is going to want to develop lucrative manufacturing within Japan," obviously people outside of Japan are going to want manufacturing that is not liable to be shut down or taken over in some way. Not that I thin…

Imagine HN was Japanese and everyone was talking about how the US was threatening to invade Greenland on a topic about a new plant in Montana.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#376

Post by [deleted] »

echelon wrote: post #358
indoordin0saur wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try and add something positive: Hokkaido seems like a great place to relocate and start a life for young aspiring workers. Homes are larger and quality of life has some advantages over the more densely populated parts of Japan. It's also very unique in terms of climate and geography: very heavy snows and mountains means there's limitless adventure for skiers and snowboarders. Yet, despite the snowy winters the w…

> Hokkaido seems like a great place to relocate and start a life for young aspiring workers. I taught English in Tokachi (Obihiro, Makubetsu-cho, Satsunai, Ikeda) a few decades ago and it was absolutely a dream. It's pristine farmland and country filled with crystal clear rivers and surrounded on all sides by snowcapped mountains. Fields that stretch forever. Hot springs. The freshest food. Fishing. Low cost of livin…

[deleted]

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#377

Post by inglor_cz »

echelon wrote: post #358
indoordin0saur wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try and add something positive: Hokkaido seems like a great place to relocate and start a life for young aspiring workers. Homes are larger and quality of life has some advantages over the more densely populated parts of Japan. It's also very unique in terms of climate and geography: very heavy snows and mountains means there's limitless adventure for skiers and snowboarders. Yet, despite the snowy winters the w…

> Hokkaido seems like a great place to relocate and start a life for young aspiring workers. I taught English in Tokachi (Obihiro, Makubetsu-cho, Satsunai, Ikeda) a few decades ago and it was absolutely a dream. It's pristine farmland and country filled with crystal clear rivers and surrounded on all sides by snowcapped mountains. Fields that stretch forever. Hot springs. The freshest food. Fishing. Low cost of livin…

Your description makes me wonder how Southern Sachalin would look like today if it didn't fall to the Soviets in 1945.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#378

Post by jack_tripper »

alephnerd wrote: post #343
orochimaaru wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineering pay in the EU is bad. If that can be rectified then top talent would not move to the US. Also, US companies actively harness senior individual contributors. I don't think traditional EU companies have that. I think all the talk around regulations, taxes, etc. are a side show. Yes, there could be slightly looser labor laws. But when it comes down to it - money matters and Europe just doesn't pay. The same…

> Engineering pay in the EU is bad Yes, but it is comparable to the pay received in Asia - especially peer developed countries like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. The issues that have lead to laggard innovation in the EU outside of niches like Biopharma are institutional in nature. > I think all the talk around regulations, taxes, etc. are a side show... I disagree about this as someone who has first hand experience…

>Yes, but it is comparable to the pay received in Asia - especially peer developed countries like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan.

Not really. If you're an engineer in Asia you're in the top 5% - 10% of local purchasing power. While if you're an engineer in UK, Belgium, Germany, Sweden, etc you're not that wealthy by local standards, you're just average like most other white collar workers, unless you work for a US FANG.

>This is what EU member states like Denmark provide for the biopharma industry

Not just Denmark, but bio/pharma is a protected and state sponsored industry in most EU countries, unlike software, electronics and electrical engineering which has been treated as a race to the bottom industry.

> The issue is, the talent density for large swathes of electronics and computer engineering just doesn't exist in the EU anymore.

"Oh no, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions". This is what you get when for the past 20+ years you outsourced your entire industry to Asia for the sake of shareholder returns with no thought of the future.

Munich is still a strong tech hub for electronics with Apple, Rhode & Schwarz and others developing RF and semiconductors there, but it can't hold a candle to the sci-fi work being done in SV or even Israel.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#379

Post by alephnerd »

jack_tripper wrote: post #378
alephnerd wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Engineering pay in the EU is bad Yes, but it is comparable to the pay received in Asia - especially peer developed countries like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. The issues that have lead to laggard innovation in the EU outside of niches like Biopharma are institutional in nature. > I think all the talk around regulations, taxes, etc. are a side show... I disagree about this as someone who has first hand experience…

>Yes, but it is comparable to the pay received in Asia - especially peer developed countries like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. Not really. If you're an engineer in Asia you're in the top 5% - 10% of local purchasing power. While if you're an engineer in UK, Belgium, Germany, Sweden, etc you're not that wealthy by local standards, you're just average like most other white collar workers, unless you work for a US FA…

> Not really. If you're an engineer in Asia you're in the top 5% - 10% of local purchasing power

Nope. You legitimately are not. The top 5-10% of salaries in both SK/JP/TW and Western Europe are primarily the managerial class.

And CoL is the same in SK and Japan with much of Western Europe.

> you're just average like most other white collar workers, unless you work for a US FANG.

Same in South Korea, Japan, and Taiwan. There's a reason immigration to Western Europe still remains somewhat attractive to Korean, Japanese, and Taiwanese nationals to this day - similar salaries, but a better work culture and a stronger social safety net than in much of Asia.

> This is what you get when for the past 20+ years you outsourced your entire industry to Asia for the sake of shareholder returns with no thought of the future

Europe hasn't been at the forefront of this industry since the 2000s.

Yes Infineon, ASML, IMEC, and STMicro are supposedly European domiciled, but they were heavily dependent on defense R&D due to semiconductor's dual use implications and all of them largely subsumed American subsidiaries whose leadership became their leadership. As such, these companies haven't been "European" for decades.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#380

Post by fngjdflmdflg »

pyrale wrote: post #375
fngjdflmdflg wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because commenters outside Japan may end up buying products containing chips made in Japan. If it was built in let's say France people would be thinking less about potential invasions. Just as "obviously Japan is going to want to develop lucrative manufacturing within Japan," obviously people outside of Japan are going to want manufacturing that is not liable to be shut down or taken over in some way. Not that I thin…

Imagine HN was Japanese and everyone was talking about how the US was threatening to invade Greenland on a topic about a new plant in Montana.

More like a new plant in Iceland, after the PM of Iceland said any attack on Greenland would be a survival-threatening situation for Iceland.

To be clear I think the comments about "geopolitical stability" or whatever term we use are not as interesting as new chip plants itself. Or at least they are a bit tired by now. I also wish Japan the best and I think they are fully capable of building such a factory and I hope they do so. But to claim that the geopolitical considerations are invented is wrong. And in fact one of the reasons the Japanese government is investing in local fabs to begin with is due to national security, as mentioned in the article:

>Securing control over chip manufacturing is being seen as a national security priority, both in Japan and elsewhere, as recent trade frictions and geopolitical tensions between China and Taiwan raise concerns around the risks of relying on foreign suppliers.

So yes, viewing the entire story through a geopolitical lens is understandable.

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