Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#311

Post by ecshafer » Mon, Nov 24, 2025, 2:42 PM UTC

ricardobeat wrote: post #202

traceroute66 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe desperately needs to secure its own semi conductor supply chain. To be fair, Europe does have ASML which has something like 2/3 market share in DUV and almost monoplistic in EUV. The moat is enormous, so they are unlikely to face any serious competition for at least a decade if not more.

China is already catching up. They have a desktop-sized 14nm EUV machine, and Xiami is setting up a 3nm manufacturing line, both entirely with local tech. Thanks USA for the export ban.

China has been dumping massive amounts of resources in this for at least 20 years, this (Making chips domestically with local tech) has been a long term goal for a very long time. The chip ban is relatively recent. IF it had an effect it was merely expediting a process that was going to happen regardless. China was NEVER going to be content importing Western chips or western machines to make chips indefinitely.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#312

Post by alephnerd » Mon, Nov 24, 2025, 2:45 PM UTC

jack_tripper wrote: post #302

alephnerd wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually around now (6am PST), HN tends to be dominated by Western (and some Eastern) European commentators. I've noticed they tend to have a weird mix of orientalist sentiment along with a "Europe should be able to do this too" sentiment (though in a lot of cases, this is moreso sentiment than reality).

>I've noticed they tend to have a weird mix of orientalist sentiment along with a "Europe should be able to do this too". Is it wrong for people in Europe to wish for more cutting-edge/high-margin opportunities in their back yard, especially given the currently atrocious state of the job market? Like you read news how TSMC's cutting edge chips are made in Taiwan and US fabs, then you looks at European fabs and the mo…

Actively disrespecting other countries who worked hard on developing such capabilities and assuming European nations should be on the "big boys table" is what is so jarring.

Nothing stopped European nations like Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, France, Italy, etc from continuing to invest in domestic capacity 20 years ago, but most of their IP is now developed in American, Indian, or other Asian subsidiaries or JVs.

Just becuase Europe was historically the richest and most powerful continent doesn't mean it will be forever.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#313

Post by froh42 » Mon, Nov 24, 2025, 2:45 PM UTC

jack_tripper wrote: post #305

anonzzzies wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With very bad results. I was walking a fab in China a few years ago: all machines are German, Japanese and Dutch. I asked why they don't have Chinese ones: the cto said they exist for the German and Japanese machines but they break much faster so it is not worth it and the asml machines are not there at all in any type of competitive form. It will happen, just not yet I guess.

>the cto said they exist for the German and Japanese machines but they break much faster Japanese cars would also break down much faster than US made cars in the 1950s, but eventually they figured out reliability and overtook US competition. What are the odds Chinese companies can repat this playbook? They're also a critical player in supplying small drone parts to both sides in Russia Ukraine war. Maybe not the most…

btw, "Made in Germany" was introduced in 1887 as a warning label so British consumers could distinguish cheap German knockoffs from British products.

We quickly improved product quality, and suddenly "Made in Germany" was a sign of quality. The same happened with Japanese products, with Korean products and the same will happen with China.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

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Post by catigula » Mon, Nov 24, 2025, 2:49 PM UTC

alephnerd wrote: post #283

tdeck wrote: post #265

Why are all the comments here so weird? It's like people saw (but didn't read) an article entitled "Man Opens a Taqueria in his Hometown" and the only responses are 1) Why didn't he open it in my hometown? This location isn't convenient for me. 2) Wouldn't it be better for someone else to open a taqueria instead? My cousin is looking for work. Shouldn't we be putting resources into helping him open a restaurant inste…

Usually around now (6am PST), HN tends to be dominated by Western (and some Eastern) European commentators. I've noticed they tend to have a weird mix of orientalist sentiment along with a "Europe should be able to do this too" sentiment (though in a lot of cases, this is moreso sentiment than reality).

"Everyone except for me is an -ist. I'm an enlightened non-ist."

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

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Post by MangoCoffee » Mon, Nov 24, 2025, 2:52 PM UTC

jabron wrote: post #151

elefanten wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. And the mistake of considering appeasement of said totalitarian superpower by “letting them have it” would be just as enormous.

Comparing Nazi Germany and the PRC in any way is certainly an interesting choice, considering they're the one major power in the world that actually doesn't have a recent history of invading sovereign nations.

does the Sino-Vietnamese War not count as recent?

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

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Post by mafribe » Mon, Nov 24, 2025, 2:53 PM UTC

adrian_b wrote: post #44

yanhangyhy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once China solves the Taiwan problem they're going to turn their sights on Korea and Japan. China will not annex Japan or South Korea. As a Chinese person, I can assure you that this is not how our mindset works at all. Most of the Western media hype about this is deliberately designed to muddy the waters around the Taiwan issue. Taiwan is different: the vast majority of people there are ethnically Chinese, so reun…

The majority of the people of Taiwan are ethnically Chinese, but this is a relatively recent status. Taiwan is not an ancient part of China. Taiwan has become ethnically Chinese in 2 stages, first an immigration from the neighboring Chinese province that is a few centuries old, then the invasion of the island by Kuomintang at the end of WWII, which took the political power from the native Chinese. So Taiwan has becom…

Exactly.

Taiwan has spent the approx 120 years on a very different political, economic, cultural track from the mainland. Taiwan diverged from the other subject of the Qing dynasty before Han nationalists began their century long project to forge a united Chinese nation. In particular, Taiwan did not go through decades of communist terror, but did experience the fruit of democracy.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

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Post by MangoCoffee » Mon, Nov 24, 2025, 2:54 PM UTC

aurareturn wrote: post #235

noduerme wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you lived in a country with local political representation and free elections, would you want your children to grow up in slavery to a dictatorship across the sea? Ask the Irish.

China has already said they'd allow one country two systems.

LOL. is this a joke? Hong Kong?

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

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Post by slightwinder » Mon, Nov 24, 2025, 2:57 PM UTC

constantcrying wrote: post #75

As a European I have to say I am extremely jealous of a government with the willingness of doing something as radical as this. Europe desperately needs to secure its own semi conductor supply chain. Neither the EU nor any member states seems willing to do anything about this though. Europe still is in a position, where it feasibly could control 100% of the semiconductor value chain on the continent. But besides meani…

Intel was supposed to build something in Germany some years ago, didn't really work out because of reasons which seems to have been outside of Germany's control. So it's not that they are unwilling, but it just didn't succeed yet.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

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Post by deltaburnt » Mon, Nov 24, 2025, 2:57 PM UTC

MangoToupe wrote: post #304

noduerme wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unification, in this case, means surrendering all rights to privacy, all rights to free expression, everything. The fact that you wouldn't fight being occupied and forced to be a slave doesn't speak highly of you, but I must admit it's an honest statement, and it's true that a lot of people might feel the same way. A majority of people everywhere are cowards, collaborators and sycophants. But they're along for the ri…

> rights to privacy, all rights to free expression, everything. Surely rights to more substantial things like healthcare make this quite an easy decision. Freedom to criticize a government doesn't matter if you can't force the government to actually give a shit about anything

Does Taiwan not have healthcare? Verbatim from Wikipedia:

> According to the Numbeo Health Care Index in 2025, Taiwan has the best healthcare system in the world, scoring 86.5 out of 100,[6] a slight increase from 86 the previous year.[7] This marked the seventh consecutive year that Taiwan has ranked first in the Numbeo Health Care Index.[8]

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

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Post by eldaisfish » Mon, Nov 24, 2025, 2:58 PM UTC

p2detar wrote: post #229

constantcrying wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so grim. What a stark difference to Japan. On one side there is a government setting up a new company, with the aim of competing at the highest end of the most complex technological process in existence. Meanwhile the EU is setting up bureaucrat managed funds to keep the remaining companies, currently suffering from the decline of the German auto industry, alive. Oh and they also paid TSMC to set up a factory…

> Meanwhile the EU What do you think the EU is? It's not a country, not a federative union. These things need a lot of discussions and synchronization among member countries, it does not work otherwise, so it takes time. I also hold the opinion that time is a resource the EU does not have, so it badly needs to reform itself - its framework no longer works for this "new age".

the #1 problem with the EU's administrative structure is that its power comes from below, i.e. from the member states. Any of them could pull a Brexit and the entire union could be in jeopardy.

The #2 problem is language. Despite what many on HN think, European borders very much exist. They exist via language and bureaucracy.

These two combine to create many problems the EU and Europe in general has. The lack of vision, the excruciatingly slow bureaucracy, both are symptoms of the same underlying problems.