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My Life Is a Lie: How a Broken Benchmark Broke America

yesigiveafig.com

41–50 of 54 posts

Re: My Life Is a Lie: How a Broken Benchmark Broke America

#41
post #5

Pretty sure this is AI written or at least assisted. “It’s not just X, it’s Y. And the foo? It bazzed.” Honestly hard to disagree with what the message is but I can’t really take him intellectually seriously even with an obvious premise with such lazy writing

> “It’s not just X, it’s Y. And the foo? It bazzed.”

The common complaint to see a bunch of em-dashes in a passage, and assume it was AI written irritated me—because I like using em-dashes. But this writing… quirk. I don’t know what dank repository of marketing text LLMs picked it up from, but it’s obnoxious, and I hope it dies a painful death.

Re: My Life Is a Lie: How a Broken Benchmark Broke America

#42
post #17

I think this was the section that made me question the accuracy of the rest: > To function in 1955 society—to have a job, call a doctor, and be a citizen—you needed a telephone line. That “Participation Ticket” cost $5 a month. / Adjusted for standard inflation, that $5 should be $58 today. / But you cannot run a household in 2024 on a $58 landline. To function today—to factor authenticate your bank account, to answe…

I think you’re underestimating the age you can leave kids to fend for themselves while you’re at work.

I don't think I am. Twelve? You don't need your own phone, never mind a smartphone with accompanying data plan, before you're 12.

Re: My Life Is a Lie: How a Broken Benchmark Broke America

#43
post #17

I think this was the section that made me question the accuracy of the rest: > To function in 1955 society—to have a job, call a doctor, and be a citizen—you needed a telephone line. That “Participation Ticket” cost $5 a month. / Adjusted for standard inflation, that $5 should be $58 today. / But you cannot run a household in 2024 on a $58 landline. To function today—to factor authenticate your bank account, to answe…

What's your estimate for hardware costs? You can't get phone+service for $20/month. What if they have limited or poor credit?

You can get a year old Moto G for under $100. There's no reason it shouldn't last two years (or 25 months for easy math, $4 a month). And you can get an MVNO plan for $15 a month that covers all talk and text and 5GB data. $19.

Those are the actual costs of my phone plan. I've never once come close to the cap because I don't stream music/video on my phone. It's not a need. I can load all the websites I must access and look up maps everywhere I need to go. And it's a pre-paid plan. No credit check required.

People who are really struggling simply do not NEED to spend more than $20 for phone service.

Re: My Life Is a Lie: How a Broken Benchmark Broke America

#44
post #17

I think this was the section that made me question the accuracy of the rest: > To function in 1955 society—to have a job, call a doctor, and be a citizen—you needed a telephone line. That “Participation Ticket” cost $5 a month. / Adjusted for standard inflation, that $5 should be $58 today. / But you cannot run a household in 2024 on a $58 landline. To function today—to factor authenticate your bank account, to answe…

I think you're just picking at a detail that doesn't alter the picture much. I think we can all agree that having home Internet and a smart phone matter. Cheap phones cost a few hundred, cheap plans cost $40+/person if you use normal amounts of data, not < 5 gigs, home Internet costs $50+, and renting or buying modem type stuff. Amortizing all that might be under $200, but it's probably damn close (or at least circa…

Cheap phones like a year old Moto G are under $100. There's no reason that shouldn't last two years. They do everything necessary. If you're near poverty, you don't get to use "normal" amounts of data, streaming shows and Spotify and YouTube. You need enough data to get by, and 5GB will easily load every website you must access in a month, never mind that the plan includes all the talk/text you need.

I really do pay $15 a month for my phone plan. I've never hit my 5GB data cap.

I do have $30 home internet. So even if we assume two adults and home broadband, we're talking $70 including hardware, not $200, but there's nothing I do on my home WiFi that I absolutely need and couldn't do from my phone while staying under the data cap. But I'm not financially struggling, and it's an expense I'm happy to pay. It's not something I need.

Re: My Life Is a Lie: How a Broken Benchmark Broke America

#46
post #5

Pretty sure this is AI written or at least assisted. “It’s not just X, it’s Y. And the foo? It bazzed.” Honestly hard to disagree with what the message is but I can’t really take him intellectually seriously even with an obvious premise with such lazy writing

It's quite easy to disagree with the headline argument that the problem is a broken benchmark. There are definitely problems with poverty and inequality but changing some benchmark won't fix them.

Re: My Life Is a Lie: How a Broken Benchmark Broke America

#47
post #17

I think this was the section that made me question the accuracy of the rest: > To function in 1955 society—to have a job, call a doctor, and be a citizen—you needed a telephone line. That “Participation Ticket” cost $5 a month. / Adjusted for standard inflation, that $5 should be $58 today. / But you cannot run a household in 2024 on a $58 landline. To function today—to factor authenticate your bank account, to answe…

The phone point was terrible but he’s not wrong that next to housing, childcare, and healthcare, basically all other expenses hardly matter at all for a family these days, including food. If the core point about the poverty line being based on inflation adjusted food prices alone is correct, then the piece holds up very well and explains a hell of a lot about how life feels in the US right now. [edit] if the “the lin…

I think it's more just an example of the flawed methodology. Like, it assumes a 4-person household, right? Two adults, two kids. If the kids need full-time childcare, it's because the parents must both be working full-time, right? Otherwise presumably one or the other of them could take care of the children at least some of the time. But where can you pay two adults for full-time work and only hit $31,200? Is there anywhere that actually pays a $7.50 minimum wage? Even in states where that's technically the minimum by law, you can't hire somebody for that. I live in one such state. KFC advertises $17 an hour on the sign outside.

And the kids must be young enough that they're not in school, if the childcare figures are to be plausible. $32,773 for two kids? I'm not remotely in a low cost of living area, but you're not paying that kind of rate even for twin newborns. It's less than half that for after school care.

The problem is that it's taking average figures as though people who are financially struggling are paying average costs for things. That's never been the case. People who don't have money have always had to be careful about how they spend it.

It's a decent point that "3x food costs" is likely too low a benchmark. But it doesn't come close to justifying 16x.

Re: My Life Is a Lie: How a Broken Benchmark Broke America

#48

Can anyone pass independent judgment on how accurate this is? (I mean, yes, he lays out all his sources and logic. I don't know enough to tell whether he's making an accurate assessment of the situation, or is trying to grind some particular axe.) Because if this is true, it's massive. And it explains so much - starting with why everyone feels the economy is broken.

Nitpicks and writing style aside (who posts charts without context?), the napkin math checks out to me as legit.

Here’s the thing all the detractors keep missing by nitpicking one data point or another: this author is talking systems, not products. Sure, the technologically inclined could get their phone cost down to that of an MVNO and a refurbished Android handset for $30/month, but most people aren’t that capable. Most people pay AT&T, Verizon, or T-Mobile - it’s why they’re the “big three”, after all. Same with home broadband, which nitpickers ignore in that $200 estimate the author makes; even if you qualify for subsidized internet, the waffling of the FCC combined with the hostility of carriers means most folks won’t even be able to get it or keep it.

And this is why I’m ultimately disappointed that the article is flagged, because for all the specific nitpicking done here in the comments, the author pre-empts those nitpicks in the piece. When you talk about systems at scale, you abandon precision for ranges, specifics for patterns, details for trends. Any idiot can point out that ahkshually, rent is only $R amount in this specific town that overbuilt two-bedroom units, and ahkshually, you can save on phone costs by using an MVNO, and ahkshually the government uses figure $P to measure poverty now.

The author lays out the most compelling argument yet of the brokenness of America as an economy. It drags the fiscal cliffs of poverty out into the daylight for all to see, with hard numbers of income versus expense to drive home how fucking impossible it is to survive and thrive in America today. It makes a compelling argument out of data and systems analysis that not just corroborates my own math, but also my lived experiences with poverty. He rightly calls out how the present system points to fancier phones, nicer cars, bigger homes, and bigger paychecks while yanking the rug out from under the working class in the form of crippled social services and non-existent price controls, leading over time to the modern era where the survival essentials are too expensive even on six figure salaries in most cities and towns. He doesn’t even pitch a solution, knowing that would detract from the argument (“SHIT IS BROKEN BY DESIGN”), leaving that to readers to figure out.

Look, most of HN think themselves as armchair savants, but we’re emphatically not. We’re also not particularly special, either, just lucky. The present system does not reward hard work, it punishes it. It is absolutely infuriating to see others receive aid and assistance for working less than I do, until I realize they’re also simply surviving by avoiding the cliffs that would tilt them to ruin. I wasn’t mad because they got help, I was mad because I didn’t.

That, I think, is what the author was trying to shift perspective on. Even if you make the big bucks, unless you’re a single income pulling down $200k+ outside a major metro area (which, let’s face it, HN readers represent a disproportionately large amount of said individuals), you’re still struggling. We’ve built a system around erroneous benchmarks that have gone unchecked and unaddressed for so long that everyone has optimized against them to keep more for themselves at the expense of others, and there is no pretty way out of it.

Re: My Life Is a Lie: How a Broken Benchmark Broke America

#49

Ignore the bit about food and multipliers. They're not really relevant. This Orshansky person used estimates and approximations to come up with a rough "this is what it takes to not starve" number, in the absence of sufficient high-quality data to calculate something more precisely. If you trust inflation / cost of living numbers, they're a measure of how expensive life is overall. This is the correct way to do thing…

The strongest argument is probably that for someone subsisting on the minimal wage, the CPI is not a good representation of their consumption basket (whereas it might be for someone close to the median).

Therefore the adjustment should probably be based on a different number reflecting the actual consumption of households near the poverty line (food would probably be higher than it is in the CPI currently, as one example)

Re: My Life Is a Lie: How a Broken Benchmark Broke America

#50

Can anyone pass independent judgment on how accurate this is? (I mean, yes, he lays out all his sources and logic. I don't know enough to tell whether he's making an accurate assessment of the situation, or is trying to grind some particular axe.) Because if this is true, it's massive. And it explains so much - starting with why everyone feels the economy is broken.

Nitpicks and writing style aside (who posts charts without context?), the napkin math checks out to me as legit. Here’s the thing all the detractors keep missing by nitpicking one data point or another: this author is talking systems , not products . Sure, the technologically inclined could get their phone cost down to that of an MVNO and a refurbished Android handset for $30/month, but most people aren’t that capabl…

The core premise (benchmarks are broken), might be correct, but the poverty benchmark he uses is a bad example. The OPM and SPM (supplemental poverty measure, developed in 2009-2012), disagree by less than 10%; and the latter takes into account many of the criticisms in the article.

The author uses MIT Living Wage numbers to argue that should be the new "poverty" benchmark - an absurd proposition. Those might be reasonable middle class numbers. He also implies that the benchmark historically represented what is now covered under that $140K calculation - also false; it took ~$9000 in 1966 to cover a "basic standard of living" for a family of 4 with 1 earner; inflation adjusted, that's around $90,000 today. If you add in SS/Medicare taxes (3% then, 15% today), that puts you at ~$100K-105K.

Using the same MIT Living Wage numbers and taking Essex-Princeton NJ as the area (roughly what the author used), you end up with $99,922 as the living wage for a single earner, 4 person household - almost exactly the same as the household back in 1966.

Were there more jobs in 1966 that paid $9000/year versus jobs that pay $100K today? That's the real story you're looking for.

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