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The Cloudflare outage might be a good thing

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Re: The Cloudflare outage might be a good thing

#12
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ARPANET was literally invented during the cold war for the specific and explicit purpose of networked communications resilience for government and military in the event major networking hubs went offline due to one or more successful nuclear attacks against the United States

It literally wasn't. It's an urban myth. >Bob Taylor initiated the ARPANET project in 1966 to enable resource sharing between remote computers. >The ARPANET was not started to create a Command and Control System that would survive a nuclear attack, as many now claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET

The stated research goals are not necessarily the same as the strategic funding motivations. The DoD clearly recognized packet-switching's survivability and dynamic routing potential when the US Air Force funded the invention of networked packet switching by Paul Baran six years earlier, in 1960, for which the explicit purpose was "nuclear-survivable military communications".

There is zero reason to believe ARPA would've funded the work were it not for internal military recognition of the utility of the underlying technology.

To assume that the project lead was told EVERY motivation of the top secret military intelligence committee that was responsible for 100% of the funding of the project takes either a special kind of naïveté or complete ignorance of compartmentalization practices within military R&D and procurement practices.

ARPANET would never have been were it not for ARPA funding, and ARPA never would've funded it were it not for the existence of packet-switched networking, which itself was invented and funded, again, six years before Bob Taylor even entered the picture, for the SOLE purpose of "nuclear-survivable military communications".

Consider the following sequence of events:

1. US Air Force desires nuclear-survivable military communications, funds Paul Baran's research at RAND

2. Baran proves packet-switching is conceptually viable for nuclear-survivable communications

3. His specific implementation doesn't meet rigorous Air Force deployment standards (their implementation partner, AT&T, refuses - which is entirely expectable for what was then a complex new technology that not a single AT&T engineer understood or had ever interacted with during the course of their education), but the concept is now proven and documented

4. ARPA sees the strategic potential of packet-switched networks for the explicit and sole purpose of nuclear-survivable communications, and decides to fund a more robust development effort

5. They use academic resource-sharing as the development/testing environment (lower stakes, work out the kinks, get future engineers conceptually familiar with the underlying technology paradigms)

6. Researchers, including Bob Taylor, genuinely focus on resource sharing because that's what they're told their actual job is, even though that's not actually the true purpose of their work

7. Once mature, the technology gets deployed for it's originally-intended strategic purposes (MILNET split-off in 1983)

Under this timeline, the sole true reason for ARPA's funding of ARPANET is nuclear-survivable military communication, Bob Taylor, being the military's R&D pawn, is never told that (standard compartmentalization practice). Bob Taylor can credibly and honestly state that he was tasked with implementing resource sharing across academic networks, which is true, but was never the actual underlying motivation to fund his research.

...and the myth of "ARPANET wasn't created for nuclear survivability" is born.

Re: The Cloudflare outage might be a good thing

#13
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ARPANET was literally invented during the cold war for the specific and explicit purpose of networked communications resilience for government and military in the event major networking hubs went offline due to one or more successful nuclear attacks against the United States

It literally wasn't. It's an urban myth. >Bob Taylor initiated the ARPANET project in 1966 to enable resource sharing between remote computers. >The ARPANET was not started to create a Command and Control System that would survive a nuclear attack, as many now claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET

Per interviews, the initial impetus wasn't to withstand a nuclear attack - but after it was first set up, it most certainly a major part of the thought process in design. https://web.archive.org/web/20151104224529/https://www.wired...

Re: The Cloudflare outage might be a good thing

#14
"Embrace outages, and build redundancy." — It feels like back in the day this was championed pretty hard especially by places like Netflix (Chaos Monkey) but as downtime has become more expected it seems we are sliding backwards. I have a tendency to rely too much on feelings so I'm sure someone could point me to some data that proves otherwise but for now that's my read on things. Personally, I've been going a lot more in on self-hosting lots of things I used to just mindlessly leave on the cloud.

Re: The Cloudflare outage might be a good thing

#15
post #7

Spot on article, but without a call to action. What can we do to combat the migration of society to a centralized corpro-government intertwined entity with no regard for unprofitable privacy or individualism?

Learn how to host anything, today.

Even if you learn to Host, there are many other services that are going to get relied on those centralised platforms, so if you are thinking to Host, every single thing on your own, then it is going to be more work than you can even imagine and definitely super hard to organise as well

Re: The Cloudflare outage might be a good thing

#16
post #10

It would be a good thing, if it would cause anything to change. It obviously won't. As if a single person reading this post wasn't aware that the Internet is centralized, and couldn't name specifically a few sources of centralization (Cloudflare, AWS, Gmail, Github). As if it's the first time this happens. As if after the last time AWS failed (or the one before that, or one before…) anybody stopped using AWS. As if a…

> It would be a good thing, if it would cause anything to change. It obviously won't.

I agree wholeheartedly. The only change is internal to these organizations (eg: CloudFlare, AWS) Improvements will be made to the relevant systems, and some teams internally will also audit for similar behavior, add tests, and fix some bugs.

However, nothing external will change. The cycle of pretending like you are going to implement multi-region fades after a week. And each company goes on continuing to leverage all these services to the Nth degree, waiting for the next outage.

Not advocating that organizations should/could do much, it's all pros/cons. But the collective blast radius is still impressive.

Re: The Cloudflare outage might be a good thing

#17
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It literally wasn't. It's an urban myth. >Bob Taylor initiated the ARPANET project in 1966 to enable resource sharing between remote computers. >The ARPANET was not started to create a Command and Control System that would survive a nuclear attack, as many now claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET

Per interviews, the initial impetus wasn't to withstand a nuclear attack - but after it was first set up, it most certainly a major part of the thought process in design. https://web.archive.org/web/20151104224529/https://www.wired...

>but after it was first set up

Your link is talking about work Baran did before ARPANET was created. The timeline doesn't back your point. And when ARPANET was created after Baran's work with Rand:

>Wired: The myth of the Arpanet – which still persists – is that it was developed to withstand nuclear strikes. That's wrong, isn't it?

>Paul Baran: Yes. Bob Taylor1 had a couple of computer terminals speaking to different machines, and his idea was to have some way of having a terminal speak to any of them and have a network. That's really the origin of the Arpanet. The method used to connect things together was an open issue for a time.

Re: The Cloudflare outage might be a good thing

#18
post #7

Spot on article, but without a call to action. What can we do to combat the migration of society to a centralized corpro-government intertwined entity with no regard for unprofitable privacy or individualism?

Learn how to host anything, today.

Have you tried that? I gave up on hosting my own email server seven or eight years ago, after it became clear that there would be an endless fight with various entities to accept my mail. Hosting a webserver without the expectation that you'll need some high powered DDOS defense seems naive, in the current day, and good luck doing that with a server or two.

Re: The Cloudflare outage might be a good thing

#19

Spot on article, but without a call to action. What can we do to combat the migration of society to a centralized corpro-government intertwined entity with no regard for unprofitable privacy or individualism?

Individuals are unlikely to be able to do something about the centralization problem except vote for politicians that want to implement countermeasures. I don’t know of any politicians (with a chance to win anything) that have that on their agenda.

Re: The Cloudflare outage might be a good thing

#20

> They [outages] can force redundancy and resilience into systems. They won’t until either the monetary pain of outages becomes greater than the inefficiency of holding on to more systems to support that redundancy, or, government steps in with clear regulation forcing their hand. And I’m not sure about the latter. So I’m not holding my breath about anything changing. It will continue to be a circus of doing everythi…

That's ok though, not every website needs 5 9s
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