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After my dad died, we found the love letters

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Re: After my dad died, we found the love letters

#361

Post by pfdietz »

pfdietz wrote: post #83
throwaway142351 wrote: post #59

I'm a dad too, and I'm in a somewhat similar situation. My son is under five, and it feels like I'm still at the very beginning of his story. I've known I was gay since high school, probably even earlier, but I kept choosing whatever seemed like the easiest path. It felt easier to stay closeted. Easier to date a woman. Easier to move in together, propose, get married, and even have a child than to face my truth. I lo…

I'm straight and love my wife of 44 years. But I long ago made the thought experiment of what would happen if she were in the same kind of situation you were in: what if she decided I was a mistake, or that being in a relation with a man was a mistake, and that she needed to do something else. I decided that would require I support her in that. How can you love someone and not want what is best for them, even if that…

I'll add another scenario like this would be if ones partner had an egg-breaking epiphany and decided they needed to transition. And my personal conclusion would be the same.

Re: After my dad died, we found the love letters

#362

Post by gritten »

gwd wrote: post #343
pavlov wrote: post #75

Ouch. This hits incredibly hard. I’ve been this dad who sits frozen at the TV every evening. I had the affairs with the emotionally unavailable men, and became one myself. Before you judge the man in this story too harshly — and there’s certainly much to judge, especially given the follow-up post — consider the environment he and I grew up in. Being gay as a young teenager in the early 1990s could feel literally like…

There's judging people, and there's judging actions. - Getting married under societal pressure even when you're pretty sure you're gay: I'm willing to cut him some slack on this. - Having gay affairs while you're married: It puts your wife at risk of disease, but OK, you've been placed in a messed up, lose-lose situation. - Telling a lover you want to be exclusive, and getting him to move to a completely new country,…

>Having gay affairs while you're married: It puts your wife at risk of disease, but OK

In what world is this ever "OK"?

Re: After my dad died, we found the love letters

#363

Post by armada651 »

johncolanduoni wrote: post #267
Alt-F4 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Most people do deserve to be able to form emotional and sexual connections, and most people that are unable to in practice are not incels and deserve sympathy without complication. They’re victims, but only in the same sense that someone can be the victim of a hurricane. The important bit is that no person has a duty to be the one to provide those connections.

> They’re victims, but only in the same sense that someone can be the victim of a hurricane.

What about those that can't form connections because of emotional abuse in their past? I wouldn't call them victims of a hurricane like it's some kind of unpreventable natural disaster. They're victims of their abusers and the people in their life that didn't intervene to stop the abuse.

Re: After my dad died, we found the love letters

#364

Post by tedk-42 »

pwthornton wrote: post #150

Jesus Christ capitalize the start of sentences. Tech bros, stop butchering language to feel cool.

10 years ago people like you were called 'grammar nazis' - a term clearly out of fashion but the sentiment remains.

An excellent article, to be nit-picked for a dumb reason as this

Re: After my dad died, we found the love letters

#365

Post by mallets »

WheatMillington wrote: post #352
mallets wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having kids is half the reason (or more) for such marriages, nothing completes the nuclear family picture quite like it. And not like it's easy for gay couples in accepting environments to have kids either, surrogacy is banned in most countries ("liberal" ones too, US is kind of an exception here) and adoption is nigh impossible. Some countries like Italy go as far as selectively making both illegal, but only for gay…

Where did you hear that surrogacy is banned in most places outside the USA? That's just not true, and I suspect you've been indoctrinated with more US-exceptionalism. Surrogacy is not banned in the UK, Australia, NZ, much of Europe, Iran, much of Asia, etc.

It's "legal" at first glance but it's effectively banned in most cases. No monetary compensation, only direct relatives, only traditional pregnancy, etc.

It's outright banned (commercial) in most of EU. In most countries it was left unregulated for a long time but most of them are choosing to ban all commercial forms of it. Besides US, most major countries have banned it.

Now many people do ignore these laws and most governments do little to enforce them unless they make the news for some reason. Banning commercial forms of it just ensures abuse and issues go unreported. It's the paternalistic part of feminism that's been leading the charge for modern bans, with both liberal and conservative roots.

Re: After my dad died, we found the love letters

#366

Post by mc32 »

lvl155 wrote: post #89
throwaway142351 wrote: post #59

I'm a dad too, and I'm in a somewhat similar situation. My son is under five, and it feels like I'm still at the very beginning of his story. I've known I was gay since high school, probably even earlier, but I kept choosing whatever seemed like the easiest path. It felt easier to stay closeted. Easier to date a woman. Easier to move in together, propose, get married, and even have a child than to face my truth. I lo…

Do what’s best for your son. There’s nothing that will overcome that guilt. Not saying what’s best for your son is for you to reveal the truth now or later. That’s entirely situational and only you know.

I think this is right. Many parents could think of choosing to opt out because raising a family can be difficult sometimes, but it’s a responsibility people have taken. Take it seriously. It’s a bit chicken to say “I’m out” whatever the reason. See them through their formative years then do your thing.

Re: After my dad died, we found the love letters

#367

Post by grayfaced »

noduerme wrote: post #58
quitit wrote: post #38

From reading both posts, there's a few things that come to my mind: - It seems this is how the author is processing her father's passing, and it's not really up to us to make moral calls on the content of the posts. They are thoughts with gaps of missing context against a real life of highs and lows which is not readily condensed into a blog post. - I'm peering into the life of a private person, that feels like a vio…

I agree with all of what you say, and while I thought the author was very good, I think calling him a coward was an unnecessary stroke of vanity and bitterness. For the same reason that no one can ever know what's inside another person's mind, much less a child understand their parents.

She wrote most of it centered on his perspective (as she understands it). And if you take that line as such, then you're right. I took that line as bringing another perspective to show the damage he caused. She has a lot to unpack and showing those conflicts demonstrated it.

Re: After my dad died, we found the love letters

#368

Post by caminante »

lazide wrote: post #359
caminante wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do. Coverups aren't exclusive to gays, and coverups are universally condemned because of the dishonesty.

That’s what I’m saying yes? What is your point?

You were being snarky about blackmail/death threats.

It's on you to elaborate your point.

Re: After my dad died, we found the love letters

#369

Post by mountainriver »

throwaway142351 wrote: post #59

I'm a dad too, and I'm in a somewhat similar situation. My son is under five, and it feels like I'm still at the very beginning of his story. I've known I was gay since high school, probably even earlier, but I kept choosing whatever seemed like the easiest path. It felt easier to stay closeted. Easier to date a woman. Easier to move in together, propose, get married, and even have a child than to face my truth. I lo…

More power to you my friend, your situation is very common, and the result of a highly homophonic society.

Good on you for recognizing it and taking steps, there is lots of support around if you need it

Re: After my dad died, we found the love letters

#370

Post by lazide »

caminante wrote: post #368
lazide wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what I’m saying yes? What is your point?

You were being snarky about blackmail/death threats. It's on you to elaborate your point.

Not being snarky at all. Mind actually saying something clearly?

I’ve literally seen every one of the situations I described play out, without a gay person in sight. (Though only attempted murder, not successful)

And notably, gay relationships of any gender don’t have a habit of getting anyone pregnant.

The described situation in the article is pretty tame by ‘hidden/forbidden relationship’ standards.

But then, I used to be a mandatory reporter.

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