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Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

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Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#61

Post by riversflow »

rconti wrote: post #14

The web/webapps/mobile helped lead to this era of "desktop PCs" (to include laptops) where the browser mattered more than the OS. It allowed Apple to become resurgent in the desktop market because OS compatibility mattered less than ever. It's not weird that it led to Apple regaining _some_ market share because clearly there was demand for the Apple/MacOS/OS X experience that may have been tempered by incompatibility…

> 1. The Apple experience, at least on the OS side, matters less and less in the webapp world.

I see it the opposite. At least for iPhone owners Universal Clipboard and file sharing with Airdrop are killer apps.

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#62

Post by IAmNotACellist »

eviks wrote: post #49
IAmNotACellist wrote: post #16

A more interesting question to me (and one where MSFT employees here would have some insight) is to what degree is Windows' recent ABYSMAL fucking quality the result of AI, outsourcing, or bad management? You can also feel the difference in healthy employees vs. unhealthy, when you switch between something like VSCode (polished, fast, intelligent UI, not buggy, consistently improves) and Explorer (paleolithically slo…

> VSCode (polished, fast, ...) and Explorer (paleolithically slow, In what world is VSCode fast when its startup time is multiples of Explorer (which had in recent news decided to preload itself to mask that issue) and they are the result of exactly the same fundamental shift from native to web native

VSCode starts up the same as any other IDE, and is responsive and snappy when using it. Explorer starts up about 100 times slower than any other file explorer, and is exceptionally while using it too.

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#64

Post by Wololooo »

bestnameever wrote: post #51
frameset wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's telling that to defend Apple against the charge of stagnation you immediately attacked Windows.

They only attacked Windows at the very end of their statement.

And I mean... They're not wrong.

I use a Mac for work, but also use windows and Linux machines.

The best experience hands down when it comes to specific things would be Linux, for very niche things because it's way less clunky than it used to and people have figured things out in the meantime.

My mac is the only system that I can mount (without too much pain because people have figured it out) any filesystem, I can virtually open every document from Mac to Windows to Linux. I have something close to package control with homebrew. The M chips are ridiculously good at both being decently performant while low energy consumption.

Sure it has its host of issues and I would be the first one in line to dunk on Apple for many many... many many, reasons, but there are things to like with their laptops...

In comparison, recently, Windows has been more and more aggressive towards their users and their data, attempting to lock people in for some spreadsheet editor... Gone are the days of Lotus1-2-3...

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#65

Post by marcosdumay »

chongli wrote: post #56
qgin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking like 2028-2030 but it's a moving target. Since we're basically getting flying cars next year at the World Cup, I guess it's going to be after flying cars.

I prefer fusion power as the go-to vapourware technology. It’s been “10-20 years out” for 70 years and counting. I don’t see any reason to believe that “AGI office workers” will be ready to go by 2030. All signs right now are pointing to a looming plateau in their capabilities.

Fusion has halved the "interval until we get it" on those 50 years. AGI has doubled the "interval until we get it" twice already since 2022.

Those things are not the same kind of vaporware.

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#66

Post by amelius »

cameldrv wrote: post #27
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

Yeah, this book was hugely influential https://www.google.com/search?q=innovator%27s+dilemma&ie=UTF... And came to the conclusion that many firms like DEC and Xerox did not sufficiently move to new technology because their customers were not interested and didn’t feel served by it, at least not until it had decades to improve. Today we have the FOMO dilemma where executives all read that book and no way they are goin…

This more recently happened to IBM (as a computer manufacturer). If your platform is not accessible to hobbyists, the next generation will not be familiar with it, and when they go get a job, it probably won't be with the technology they don't know. Then, assuming there is a credible alternative, the inaccessible technology will die out in a generation, as we've seen with IBM mainframes.

Yes, many companies even start with hobbyist tools. IBM proves that going all B2B is not a good idea.

The other end of the problem is Apple which is a consumer company, but they prohibit companies to use their hardware for building new things.

Both approaches suck for consumers and/or startups, but Apple's approach at least works for them from a business perspective.

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#67

Post by andersonpico »

hamdingers wrote: post #6

Author is using Microsoft and Windows interchangeably, this post is only about Windows. Gaming is a bigger business for Microsoft than Windows and that can only ever be consumer focused. There's no mention of Xbox, nor an awareness that Microsoft published games are playable on the Steam Machine.

I don't think gaming is really bigger than windows. Gaming revenue is 23B in 2025 and Windows+Devices is 17B, so just in this metrics they're already close; but you have to factor how much of their 120B Office+Productivity line on their annual report only exist because people use Windows. If you take LinkedIn and Dynamics out of the equation you get approximately 100B in Office, Teams, SharePoint and stuff like that and people only use these product at scale because they're on Windows.

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#68

Post by smallmancontrov »

blitz_skull wrote: post #19
rconti wrote: post #14

The web/webapps/mobile helped lead to this era of "desktop PCs" (to include laptops) where the browser mattered more than the OS. It allowed Apple to become resurgent in the desktop market because OS compatibility mattered less than ever. It's not weird that it led to Apple regaining _some_ market share because clearly there was demand for the Apple/MacOS/OS X experience that may have been tempered by incompatibility…

As an Apple Stan, I don’t understand what you’re referring to. MacOS is light years ahead of Windows in so many arenas, I’m not really sure what you could be referring to when you say “stagnation”. Every OS ever released has issues at launch, not sure if that’s what you mean by “regression”. But man… windows has been garbage for the better part of 2 decades now.

After two decades of relentless effort, Apple has finally managed to make Spotlight as broken and useless as Windows Search where it doesn't find local files and just returns web results.

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#69

Post by llbbdd »

Nextgrid wrote: post #57
llbbdd wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm young, I'll take that bet. In 25 years windows will still have greater than 50% consumer computer marketshare out of sheer momentum.

I'd be very surprised if "consumer computer" will be anything but a niche thing in 25 years.

It might be just a remote UI over "Windows Cloud Eternal" at that point but if by then we've moved to "Apple Forever OS" or "The Eternal Year of the Linux Desktop" I'll make a balanced diet out of hats
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