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My private information is worth $30

blog.melashri.net

41–50 of 67 posts

Re: My private information is worth $30

#41

I wonder how much more organizations would value PII if we could legally demand all of the PII of the executive officers for that same price.

Not much, proper PII sustainment over decades (generally) is too demanding for universities unless they have proper resources and knowhow as well.

The US banking system has some blame here as well, just knowing someone’s bank account details shouldn’t let anyone transfer money out of it. IBAN system is quite good at this, that people just share their account numbers with each other and even some merchants like restaurants accept payment through IBAN.

Re: My private information is worth $30

#42
What would an actual market price be for this PII?

Let's say someone offers $X, and in return they post on a public website your name, address, date of birth, Social Security number and employer. Not a lifetime feed, but a single snapshot of this information taken between 4 and 36 years ago, to match the details of this university leak. Maybe some additional info like what grades you got, but not your financial or health history. This offer is made to all adult Americans.

What would X need to be? I suspect the vast majority of Americans accept this at $10,000. And a very significant number take it at $100, or in return for access to a trendy new social network or a discounted television or similar.

I'd take this offer for some five figure sum, which would not be a life changing amount to me. It's a complicating factor that SSNs are traditionally a vector for fraud, but that would go away once people take this offer.

Re: My private information is worth $30

#43
post #42

What would an actual market price be for this PII? Let's say someone offers $X, and in return they post on a public website your name, address, date of birth, Social Security number and employer. Not a lifetime feed, but a single snapshot of this information taken between 4 and 36 years ago, to match the details of this university leak. Maybe some additional info like what grades you got, but not your financial or he…

Oh that's easy. There's a business model at play here. The point of this information is to make you spend more, and the value of that information is something like 1%-2% (goods) to 30% (of things like credit card fees you pay) of what you spend more if the shops around you know this information.

So from your perspective, the net value of the information is negative. Very negative in most cases.

The power of this model is the adversarial aspect. If there's 2 stores, especially online, and store A knows this info it can be 10% more expensive and grow faster than store B. Which means stores can't choose not to pay, it's a losing proposition and these businesses will die if advertising works even a little bit.

This aspect is why Google, and everyone, want AI to "fight" over everything: the adversarial aspect. Because for any particular purpose, OCR, or even making entire movies, there's a level of AI that's "good enough". Google or Facebook might reach that level 6 months earlier than everyone else (I would have said 10 years earlier 5 years ago, but even OpenAI's advantage has has shrunk to 2-3 months now, so I feel 6 months is generous), and I'm sure that'll be a good business ... for 6 months, if done well. But if you can create a fight where the best AI wins, then AI is worth the highest amount anyone will offer ...

Re: My private information is worth $30

#44
post #19

Class actions like this are opt in; by accepting the settlement you accepted the terms and lost your right to sue for a different (more appropriate to you) value. Planet money did a a great segment on how these work and why America is set up this way. I learned a lot about it. You should definitely take a listen[1]. If you aren’t on Apple then search “What to do when you’re in a class action?” And find the podcast (n…

This one is opt out: see https://www.uofmdatasettlement.com/ "IF YOU DO NOTHING Get no benefits. Give up your rights to sue the University over the legal claims in this case."

Sorry, my phrasing was off. I should have said, “you can opt out”

Re: My private information is worth $30

#45
This is actual problem in general. As a rule, I never give my personal information online anywhere, always use fake info. However, there are a couple of cases when real info is necessary. If it's just my real name and phone number like for booking.com, that's maybe acceptable - just one weak point, little PII.

However, an institution like an university requires a bit more, like a copy my ID or a photo. And based on their attitude, I'm sure they'll get hacked sooner or later. Their IT is either outsourced or understaffed and of mediocre quality. The fact than noone broke in (?) is because nobody cared that much.

Re: My private information is worth $30

#46
post #43
post #42

What would an actual market price be for this PII? Let's say someone offers $X, and in return they post on a public website your name, address, date of birth, Social Security number and employer. Not a lifetime feed, but a single snapshot of this information taken between 4 and 36 years ago, to match the details of this university leak. Maybe some additional info like what grades you got, but not your financial or he…

Oh that's easy. There's a business model at play here. The point of this information is to make you spend more, and the value of that information is something like 1%-2% (goods) to 30% (of things like credit card fees you pay) of what you spend more if the shops around you know this information. So from your perspective, the net value of the information is negative. Very negative in most cases. The power of this mode…

Do I spend more, or on different things? And do I get any extra value out of the extra things I buy? Most people spend approximately all of their disposable income. The information is valuable to marketers fighting to divide up that pie, not to increase the total spent.

If it does significantly boost the amount of money spent and thus the velocity of money, should governments consider publishing everyone's PII as a way to stimulate economic growth?

Re: My private information is worth $30

#47
post #32
post #8

> They will not take responsibility for their actions, and they will not compensate you for the damage they caused. They will just offer you a small amount of money and hope that you will forget about it. Paying for a wrongful action is taking reponsibility and compensating. But also "for the damage they caused" - what's the damage if the info is already out there? > The basic problem is that they do not care about u…

Author here. What I mean is that for an institution of higher education and intellectual research, the bar for ethical action should be higher. An apology (with guarantees and plans for improvement with oversight) is better than put a low price and call it cost of doing business. The damages or negative consequences are going to happen no matter what as information is already out there. My point is not about the mone…

> An apology (with guarantees and plans for improvement with oversight) is better than put a low price and call it cost of doing business

How when this is a 0 price of doing business? And there is a plan: "the University has increased its vigilance in securing information that it maintains", after all "The safety and privacy of all members of the University community are a top priority" https://system.umn.edu/data-incident (this is from 23, not 21). And I'm sure there is some admin position for "oversight"! So if you're after empty words, they have those in spades! And would add the apology you requested if not for the extra legal cost, so I don't see how any of that is better.

> Also I don't understand the logic

Because you've perverted the logic from into some vague metaphorical abuse that can harm every time it happens.

> Why do we accept this in such case and not in others?

We don't because settlements such as this do not depend on whether the info is already public, so you get paid regardless. But also because in such case there is no harm (info is already public), and in other cases there is.

> why would that change anything?

for the exact same reason - because harm depends on the first publishing and you were talking about compensating for harm

Re: My private information is worth $30

#48
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I realize I’m responding to an account created four minutes ago but… the output of nearly all work done on a computer meets this criteria. Is all work done on a computer worth $0 in your view? Yes. Also, this website is very pro-piracy, which means they generally agree with me. (Saying this last part because by mentioning the age of my account it seems you're accusing me of being a troll,)

Interesting! I imagine this website is also full of software developers, startup founders, VCs and others who earn a living in software. How do you reconcile all of that work actually being worth $0 with the fact that we are earning a living?

What would you exactly do with a copy of the source code of the Facebook app?

Re: My private information is worth $30

#49

The settlement you get from a class action lawsuit has no relation to the value of the underlying tort. It is not, as an investor would say, a pricing event. Everybody’s private information would be worth a different amount if you were talking sheer economic value. A poor persons would be very little, a rich person would be worth very much.

Yes. $30/victim is the negotiated amount at which the lawyers make an acceptable profit.

I'm talking about the lawyers who initiated, orchestrated, and covered all costs associated with the class action lawsuit.

They typically get ~30% of the announced settlement. The headline figure in this case was $5M, so the lawyers likely got ~$1.5M.

That has nothing to do with the worth of each victim's information.

Re: My private information is worth $30

#50
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting! I imagine this website is also full of software developers, startup founders, VCs and others who earn a living in software. How do you reconcile all of that work actually being worth $0 with the fact that we are earning a living?

What would you exactly do with a copy of the source code of the Facebook app?

Sure you can cherry pick an example that would be difficult for me to monetize.

However I can think of plenty I’d do with the model weights for ChatGPT, Claude or Gemini. Can’t you?

I can go on with hundreds of examples. The Waymo source and models, as another example. Enumerating everything would detract from the message so I’ll stop here.

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