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Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

theguardian.com

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Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#431

Post by synecdoche »

pizzafeelsright wrote: post #253
konmok wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Depression is caused by laziness and anxiety by hopelessness. I wish this were true, but its not even close. I wonder how your kids will react when they move away, and you're not around to police their emotional expression. If they're like me, they will promptly collapse into paralysis and self-destruction. I strongly suggest that you frequently give your kids long stretches of time (months) to practice regulating…

At this age I am teaching emotional regulation on a daily basis. As for when they grow up, adults who cannot manage their emotions get fired or are sent to jail. It is critical to be slow to anger, quick to forgive, and work at building strong friendships.

Anger seems to me to be one of the least understood emotions. In my opinion anger should be practised at every possible opportunity in order to cultivate as good as relationship to it as other emotions. Otherwise it will seem like it's out of your control due to not knowing its limits and how much of it you need due to it being suppressed. It is a necessary emotion for our wellbeing.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#432

Post by squigz »

drekipus wrote: post #429
squigz wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because "Fixing society" (putting aside questions of what that even means...) is going to take a long, long time and a lot of effort. Which isn't to say we shouldn't continue to fix it (hint: we do!) but it doesn't mean we should just ignore other ways of helping our kids. > we will impose experimental drugs on kids What a terribly disengeuous way of putting it! "Imposing" implies there's not a choice. And all…

> implies there's not a choice There isn't a choice if * Questing it is "morally wrong" as it's made out to be * It's the only solution.

Nobody's saying it's "morally wrong" not to give your kids antidepressants - but nor is it morally wrong to give them to them.

What tends to be "morally wrong" is when parents are like "I'm not giving my kids those pills! There's no such thing as depression! Just go play outside some more!" - in other words, dismissing your children's feelings

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#433

Post by gusgus01 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #409
brendoelfrendo wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I can tell you've got a chip on your shoulder about this and are probably a conspiracy theorist, so I'm not going to argue anymore.

Maybe chip on their shoulder, but the claim of conspiracy theorist is completely unwarranted. The impression you give off is that you decided upfront their sources are bad and you're going to knee-jerk reject their evidence no matter what.

This all started with someone asking for their sources, and the person hasn't given any except to say to Google... which means for all we know the person who then googled ended up in a situation with lots of conspiracy theories. Google famously gives personalized results to an extreme degree especially when you add in differences in search terms.

I will say if you search for "chemical imbalance debunked" as discussed, the first result for me is a paper that also says dyslexia cannot be proved to be a disorder. Which just from vibes feels really conspiratorial, even without making comments on the veracity of the academic paper.

[https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1518691/]

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#434

Post by [deleted] »

slaymaker1907 wrote: post #340
EB66 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also had a close family member who committed suicide shortly after going on Prozac -- this also happened nearly 30 years ago. His young son later went on Prozac himself (several months after his fathers suicide) and immediately started demonstrating bizarre disinhibited anti-social behavior (e.g., damaging property, stealing from friends, etc). He was immediately yanked off Prozac when he started articulating his o…

That sounds like mania which is even more likely considering that early depression is often actually bipolar.

[deleted]

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#435

Post by brooke2k »

conartist6 wrote: post #404
robertakarobin wrote: post #108

I was very young when my mom started Prozac but do remember how angry and sad she was before compared to after. Years later there was a time when me and my sister noticed our mom was acting a bit strange -- more snappish and irritable than usual, and she even started dressing differently. Then at dinner she announced proudly that she had been off Prozac for a month. My sister and I looked at each other and at the sam…

That's what freaks me out about these drugs. You-on-the-pill becomes you, and you can't ever stop.

well when the you-off-the-pill wants to kill yourself, becoming you-on-the-pill is a pretty rad thing

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#436

Post by GOD_Over_Djinn »

gusgus01 wrote: post #433
Dylan16807 wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe chip on their shoulder, but the claim of conspiracy theorist is completely unwarranted. The impression you give off is that you decided upfront their sources are bad and you're going to knee-jerk reject their evidence no matter what.

This all started with someone asking for their sources, and the person hasn't given any except to say to Google... which means for all we know the person who then googled ended up in a situation with lots of conspiracy theories. Google famously gives personalized results to an extreme degree especially when you add in differences in search terms. I will say if you search for "chemical imbalance debunked" as discussed…

[flagged]

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#437

Post by Aeglaecia »

GOD_Over_Djinn wrote: post #424
Dylan16807 wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe chip on their shoulder, but the claim of conspiracy theorist is completely unwarranted. The impression you give off is that you decided upfront their sources are bad and you're going to knee-jerk reject their evidence no matter what.

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drugging society is a method of proxying community responsibility , I personally completely understand why people react vitriolically to being told that drugs are not the solution , because without drugs we would have to help each other , and most people dont realize that cooperative multi tasking is the most efficient solution , or they give up because bad actors easily ruin functional cooperative societies , or they are lazy

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#438

Post by drekipus »

squigz wrote: post #432
drekipus wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> implies there's not a choice There isn't a choice if * Questing it is "morally wrong" as it's made out to be * It's the only solution.

Nobody's saying it's "morally wrong" not to give your kids antidepressants - but nor is it morally wrong to give them to them. What tends to be "morally wrong" is when parents are like "I'm not giving my kids those pills! There's no such thing as depression! Just go play outside some more!" - in other words, dismissing your children's feelings

I can agree, but I often think those commentors would probably be dismissing the parents diagnosis of the child expressing themselves, rather than dismissing the child.

Children are experiencing everything growing at once. They have preferences, they have new experience, everything is very close to "the first time this has ever happened" and so, can be a very big deal for them, at the time.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ internet arguments about parenting, experiences, assholes, having one, putting it in others faces, etc. The internet is just talking to a bunch of people who have different ideas. I wouldn't take it too seriously, over half of it is bots or socially inept people anyway

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#439

Post by drekipus »

robertakarobin wrote: post #338
drekipus wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I think childhood development experts would all agree that's healthy. Could it be that we think it's healthy because we can just give meds to the kids that it affects? How would someone even have the ability to say "it's healthy" - I'm struggling to think how it comes about. I think it's healthy for my kids to cry about a worm dying in the garden, but anything less than "anxiety about a dying planet"... Put it…

At what age will you permit your kids to leave the walled garden you've created for them?

I don't give them a walled garden. I let them experience life how they do, and i protect them from predators until they can defend for themselves.

(so in this particular situation, maybe highschool / early adult)

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#440

Post by tripzilch »

pizzafeelsright wrote: post #356
peepee1982 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s pretty tough to exercise or clean your house when getting out of bed feels like an insurmountable task. Depression isn’t like an infection or cancer—it’s a diagnosis based on established criteria, as are most mental disorders. Experts may disagree on diagnosis or treatment, but that doesn’t make it useless. By that logic, you might as well say autism is caused by avoiding eye contact—since there’s no blood test…

I'm autistic by some measure. Eye contact is uncomfortable but I push myself. I avoid it most of the time but yet play the game and do my best. I'm finally at the point where I'll keep eye contact until I've completed the social requirement.

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