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Homeschooling hits record numbers

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Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#711

Post by chii »

WalterBright wrote: post #611
calmbell wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public school experience in the U.S. depends so much on your ZIP Code. I attended the best public schools in my state while my wife attended the worst in the same state. I am genuinely pro-public school, but there is a point where the benefit of being around different people is overshadowed by distractions and low standards. My wife had to be diagnosed with a learning disability in college to receive test accommo…

> her teachers were preoccupied with students graduating and showing up to class That's because the attendance rate is the driver of state funds to the schools. The schools also get more funding if the students perform poorly.

> The schools also get more funding if the students perform poorly.

that's such a weird policy.

The teachers can produce poorly performing students easily (without much effort i might add), but cannot do that very same for well performing students (even with effort). The incentive to produce poor performing students to get more funding means it's misaligned with the student's best interests.

Schools and students _should_ be incentivized to perform well, and funding ought to be a portion of that incentive.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#712

Post by csa »

TaupeRanger wrote: post #376
ecshafer wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids are not school age yet, and I am not sure on if I will home school or not. But I do think its possible to get good socialization exposure while homeschooling. There is the neighborhood kids, you have sports and clubs kids can join, religious groups. Plus not all homeschooling is just a student staying at home all day. Some people "homeschooling" I know are groups of parents getting together to educate their c…

15+ years ago, that might have been the case. Now, you might find some friends in the 3-8 year old range, but then the kids just...don't do things anymore. In both suburban neighborhoods I've lived in the past 10 years, there are basically zero middle school or high school kids doing anything except playing video games and messing around on their phones from the comfort of home. School is quite literally the only soc…

> In both suburban neighborhoods I've lived in the past 10 years, there are basically zero middle school or high school kids doing anything except playing video games and messing around on their phones from the comfort of home.

While perhaps not uncommon, these sound like massively dysfunctional neighborhoods.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#713

Post by fzeroracer »

hintklb wrote: post #668
bentley wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Childhood and youth are anything but “low‐stakes.” The social experiences I faced in public school were far worse than even the worst parts of my adult life. The direction I was headed was one of dark cynicism and misanthropy thanks to the bullying I faced and the lack of care from the adults in the system. When I switched to homeschooling, I began interacting with rational adults (my parents’ friends) and in turn le…

I had exactly the same experience. I was in a public school full of assholes and teachers that couldn't care less about any bullying taking place. Those few years were probably the worse years of my life. I grew significantly and became a different person when I was moved to a different school. I still think it taught me a lot about the world and how people really are. I really lost a lot of faith in humanity in thos…

On the opposite end of the spectrum I grew up near a Mormon family whom exclusively homeschooled their children. Their 'homeschooling' mostly consisted of using the older children to assist and babysit the younger children as they had about ten or so children, and naturally could not equally provide schooling for such a wide range of needs.

They were a nice family, but when I was in community college I had a chance to talk with one of the eldest who was there getting her GED. Last I recall, she held some resentment towards her parents because she was held back fairly significantly by her upbringing. Well, except for the fact that they were wealthy which helps smooth some of the problems.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#714

Post by WalterBright »

chii wrote: post #711
WalterBright wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> her teachers were preoccupied with students graduating and showing up to class That's because the attendance rate is the driver of state funds to the schools. The schools also get more funding if the students perform poorly.

> The schools also get more funding if the students perform poorly. that's such a weird policy. The teachers can produce poorly performing students easily (without much effort i might add), but cannot do that very same for well performing students (even with effort). The incentive to produce poor performing students to get more funding means it's misaligned with the student's best interests. Schools and students _sho…

> that's such a weird policy

Yup. I've taken adult lessons in things, and I don't continue to buy lessons if the coach is unable to teach me. But in the public schools, watch what happens if you suggest merit pay. Shields up, Mr Sulu!

Instead, teacher pay is based on years of service and how many credentials you have.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#715

Post by fzeroracer »

WrongAssumption wrote: post #370
pdabbadabba wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It very much is. No where else in life are people forced to mixed with the general unfiltered public. I'm baffled by this. Many workplaces? Mass transit? Walking down the sidewalk? At a concert? Buying groceries? True, there don't all expose you to the full sweep of human existence at once but, in aggregate, it seems pretty similar to what you'd encounter at most public schools. What if they want a career in a hosp…

Home schooled kids walk down sidewalks, go to concerts, go grocery shopping. Most workplaces are highly filtered. The whole interview process is specifically geared towards filtering out undesirable people.

> Most workplaces are highly filtered. The whole interview process is specifically geared towards filtering out undesirable people.

This just isn't true or is born from a standpoint of extreme luck. Like have you genuinely paid attention to the people you work with? Coworkers, CEOs, the stuff people say in slack channels or the things people gossip about at work? The only way I think someone can genuinely hold an opinion like this is by being so unaware of what workplace politics that they are unaware that most workplaces are like Highschool 2. Even the professional ones. Especially the professional ones.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#716

Post by rbanffy »

WalterBright wrote: post #608
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a degree in philosophy or mathematics or whatever does not automatically make someone a good teacher. Teaching - particularly with young children - is a skill that is almost orthogonal to subject knowledge.

Teaching ability is an innate feature of human beings. My parents taught me a lot of things. Neither had a teaching degree. At my university, I was taught by professors and grad students, none of whom had a teaching degree.

> Teaching ability is an innate feature of human beings.

Distribution seems to follow a bell curve - you’ll usually find the people with exceptional teaching ability harnessing that aptitude in a professional setting.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#717

Post by fzeroracer »

seneca wrote: post #304
meheleventyone wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My job isn’t the totality of my life and you have very strange ideas about how quickly disruptive people actually get fired. You get plenty of unfiltered interaction in life. If anything I’d say the sort of thing you describe sounds more like an insular cult. Although even there you get misanthropic people, abuse and so on.

> My job isn’t the totality of my life and you have very strange ideas about how quickly disruptive people actually get fired. You get plenty of unfiltered interaction in life. In what environment are you, as an adult, forced to interact with everyone who happens to show up? The only instances I can think of are other government-run institutions like the military or prison, and I don't think anyone would argue those…

> In what environment are you, as an adult, forced to interact with everyone who happens to show up?

Holding literally any job ever? I was a software engineer and I frequently had to interact with a wide range of folks for the sake of my professional career. QA, contractors, internal and external teams. I was paid to do so, unless you argue that I have the option to quit or something in which my response is I need to in fact eat and have stable income.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#718

Post by HeinzStuckeIt »

WalterBright wrote: post #608
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a degree in philosophy or mathematics or whatever does not automatically make someone a good teacher. Teaching - particularly with young children - is a skill that is almost orthogonal to subject knowledge.

Teaching ability is an innate feature of human beings. My parents taught me a lot of things. Neither had a teaching degree. At my university, I was taught by professors and grad students, none of whom had a teaching degree.

> At my university, I was taught by professors and grad students, none of whom had a teaching degree.

Professors and grad students may well have done a course on how to lecture. It is obligatory and/or an easy way to pick up credits in many PhD programs. In any event, grad students teaching badly, because the department has allowed the more competent faculty to put their teaching burden on grad students, is a common complaint about US universities.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#719

Post by [deleted] »

discardable_dan wrote: post #708
_blk wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't pretend to know where you live or what those people's desires are but I definitely started homeschooling after the last US administration took moral volatility to new standards. The principles taught in schools just did not align anymore with what was common sense when I was in school and what I believe in. Now before you judge, I'm not looking for a fight. My wife and I have both master-degree educations in…

So, to be clear, you pulled your children out of public school because students were being educated to accept other people who do not adhere to their own set of religious and cultural beliefs, in a country founded on freedom of religion? And now instead of learning science in a lab and socializing, they are forced to maintain your farm? What an good job you are doing!

[deleted]

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#720

Post by simgt »

As someone from a country where public school is the norm, private school less so and homeschooling the absolute exception, these threads are always wild to read. It really shows how deeply individualistic and polarized the USA is. Sure, let's make homeschooling the norm, problematic kids will be the only ones who fill the ranks of public schools, gifted kids or the ones from religious zealots will all live in their bubbles, then what? Snow Crash is your destination?
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