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Homeschooling hits record numbers

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Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#611

Post by WalterBright »

calmbell wrote: post #468
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #147

I can't say my public school experience was great, I was bullied and didn't really click with the popular kids, but being around a cross section of actual American kids in my age group (my school district mixed middle class with lower class neighborhoods) helped me shape my worldview and learn to deal with people who didn't look or talk like me. I frequently saw fights, so I learned that you just stay away and watch…

The public school experience in the U.S. depends so much on your ZIP Code. I attended the best public schools in my state while my wife attended the worst in the same state. I am genuinely pro-public school, but there is a point where the benefit of being around different people is overshadowed by distractions and low standards. My wife had to be diagnosed with a learning disability in college to receive test accommo…

> her teachers were preoccupied with students graduating and showing up to class

That's because the attendance rate is the driver of state funds to the schools.

The schools also get more funding if the students perform poorly.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#612

Post by kachapopopow »

pyuser583 wrote: post #566
kachapopopow wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well if we just apply the bell curve here, on average children will be pretty average (shocker) so those should be left on their own and discover their own niche while bad performers should get extra attention so they can keep up with the rest and with the gifted (if they actually want to) given the opportunity to explore higher level subjects. so in the end we give attention to gifted and the struggling since there'…

Gifted and average students who aren’t given attention become poor performers quickly. Gifted students especially. Students who learn ahead don’t want to be told: “ok you have the material, so I’ll ignore you for a bit.” They want more. They want their questions answered, even if the questions aren’t part of the lesson plan. Nobody wants to be told “we aren’t studying that today.” You really can’t starve the rest of…

teaching independent learning is also a very valuable skill, most average people can do it especially the gifted ones as long as they are given the resources to do so and general skills taught in the first 8 grades since realistically I caught up by 10th grade while being a very poor performer in the first 8 (mostly due to lack of effort and generally being very stupid as a kid).

also there is very little excuse now with how advanced AI is getting at being able to explain subjects, it's all coming down to motivation, environment and the ability to use these tools in the first place - children struggle to use computers since we see it as a given, but to someone who didn't grow up with the incremental advancements it can seem very overwhelming.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#613

Post by WalterBright »

eucyclos wrote: post #591
lapcat wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially when there is propaganda taught in the public schools that does warp the students' world views in ways that harms them and me. This sentence caused a record needle scratch sound in my head. I'm afraid to ask what you mean, and it seems like you might be afraid to say, because it's a bit bizarre to drop that line with no explanation.

I can give a very simple example - in my high school history class, the cold war was presented as a conflict between communism and democracy - despite the fact that on an economic field the conflict was clearly between communism and capitalism, while on a political field proponents of both systems were happy to subvert the democratic process whenever someone had the audacity to vote for the wrong economic system. Ooh…

Stalin wasn't elected. Neither was Gorbachev.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#614

Post by WalterBright »

eucyclos wrote: post #591
lapcat wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially when there is propaganda taught in the public schools that does warp the students' world views in ways that harms them and me. This sentence caused a record needle scratch sound in my head. I'm afraid to ask what you mean, and it seems like you might be afraid to say, because it's a bit bizarre to drop that line with no explanation.

I can give a very simple example - in my high school history class, the cold war was presented as a conflict between communism and democracy - despite the fact that on an economic field the conflict was clearly between communism and capitalism, while on a political field proponents of both systems were happy to subvert the democratic process whenever someone had the audacity to vote for the wrong economic system. Ooh…

> remember the four food groups?

1. Calories

2. Carcinogens

3. Caffeine

4. Cholesterol

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#615

Post by aeroevan »

biztos wrote: post #596
prng2021 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everytime I see these kinds of arguments, it sounds like someone desperately trying to argue that a park playground is almost as entertaining for kids as an amusement park. Your example of 5 kids socializing with each other is definitely better than 1 kid at home. It’s also definitely worse than learning to socialize in a school of 500 kids each day. This is undeniable unless you have an argument of how a pool of 500…

I went to a school of about 50 kids, and I often wished I’d been at a school of 500 or more kids, but looking back I’m very glad my family didn’t opt for the school of 5000 kids. At 50 kids, if you were social you definitely had friends (not just acquaintances) from very different socioeconomic backgrounds. At 50 kids, you could play sports on the official team if you wanted to and showed up and didn’t slack off. You…

My son is in a co-op with around that number of kids, but that's total (through HS).

The co-op I was in 30 years ago was a bit smaller but sounds like it's still going strong (no clue how big it is these days though).

So there definitely are homeschooling co-ops around that size. I do wonder what the average size of a co-op is though

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#616

Post by zten »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #440
jfreds wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was homeschooled until high school. I couldn’t agree with you more. The value that the socialization the public school offers is underestimated. Learning activities with other homeschooled kids is ok but not enough. A tight-knit neighborhood of friends is huge, but not enough. You need to develop a thick skin and a sense of self-assurance. I have no counterfactual of course, but I think much of the social anxiety I…

As someone else who was homeschooled except the last three grades, I also agree. Additionally, the effect is multiplied if the kid in question lives in a rural or semi-rural area rather than a suburb or city. For the majority of my adult life I’ve been playing catchup. Even now, barreling towards 40, there’s aspects of social capabilities where I come up quite short relative to my peers. If I’m ever to be a parent, I…

> Even now, barreling towards 40, there’s aspects of social capabilities where I come up quite short relative to my peers.

I identify with your post as a rural kid who mostly didn't socialize with classmates after school. I went to public school, and I'm 40 now. I think the human experience is that you are inevitably going to encounter social situations where you feel outmatched or simply don't belong. I do agree with making sure your kids experience public school, but I think that's about the bare minimum of what you can offer your kids.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#617

Post by ethbr1 »

jhawk28 wrote: post #610
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #147

I can't say my public school experience was great, I was bullied and didn't really click with the popular kids, but being around a cross section of actual American kids in my age group (my school district mixed middle class with lower class neighborhoods) helped me shape my worldview and learn to deal with people who didn't look or talk like me. I frequently saw fights, so I learned that you just stay away and watch…

This is the most common myths about homeschooling. In reality, the kids at public school sit at a desk most of the time. They don't get to socialize. Most activities are structured. Homeschoolers have CO-OPs, field trips, weekly PE visits, real interactions with adults, and actual free time. They are the most socialized kids in the US. The diversity in the homeschool relationships is quite large which you can see whe…

You're straw-manning the worst public school experience against the best possible homeschool experience.

> They are the most socialized kids in the US.

Bullshit. You know how I know? Because on average parents are terrible at exposing their kids to Things Not Like Them and Things They Don't Approve Of.

There are great homeschooling parents and crazy ones, but maybe it's not the worst idea to give kids a few hours a day outside their family-approved bubble?

Just in case it's the latter.

Or am I mistaken and all homeschooling in the US requires the child's consent?

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#618

Post by vivzkestrel »

sbuttgereit wrote: post #377
vivzkestrel wrote: post #30

homeschooled kids are literally competing against kids from other countries that are being schooled on calculus, geometry, statistics, algebra with practical chemistry, physics and biology lessons. This is not going to end well 15 yrs down the line

You think avoiding these things are why people are thinking about homeschooling?! In San Francisco where I live the public school system made the decision to not offer algebra until later for egalitarian reasons. Basically since they couldn't bring up the students that faired poorly in math, they delayed the subject for everybody. Along the same lines, they took the one high school dedicated to the highest achieving…

they create the feeling of belonging to something, a group, a social circle. you cannot recreate that at home. you ll see what happens after a decade going along this path. The feelings of being an orderly part of a group and partaking in group stuff cannot be recreated at home

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#619

Post by lapcat »

eucyclos wrote: post #604
lapcat wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> remember the four food groups? LOL this cannot be a serious reason for homeschooling. You're trolling me, right? Please tell me you're trolling me.

You're tempting me to start doing just that. Maybe focus on keeping the conversation productive in keeping with HN's community guidelines.

> Maybe focus on keeping the conversation productive

I didn't and don't want to have this conversation. Technically, I didn't even ask alphazard what they meant, and in any case, I didn't ask anyone else what alphazard meant, as if someone else could magically interpret alphazard's cryptic remark any better than I could, which they can't, as proved by the multiple different unsolicited answers I received.

I was perhaps morbidly curious what the atheist was objecting to in public schools when they nonetheless seemed perfectly fine with conservative religious homeschooling.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#620

Post by ethbr1 »

eucyclos wrote: post #607
Melatonic wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What social conformity is forced by schools these days ? Only one I can really remember was we had specific uniforms for PE (basically just gym shorts and a tshirt)

not the school administration, other students.

So, good training for exactly the same pressures they'll face as adults?
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