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We should all be using dependency cooldowns

blog.yossarian.net

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Re: We should all be using dependency cooldowns

#181
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you already upgraded to the one with the bug in it, and then only if you ignore "this patch is actually different: read this notice and deploy it immediately". The argument is not "never update quickly": it is don't routinely deploy updates constantly that are not known to be high priority fixes.

> The argument is not "never update quickly": it is don't routinely deploy updates constantly that are not known to be high priority fixes. Yes. I'm saying that's wrong. The default should always be to upgrade to new upstream releases immediately. Only in exceptional cases should things be held back.

[deleted]

Re: We should all be using dependency cooldowns

#182
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you already upgraded to the one with the bug in it, and then only if you ignore "this patch is actually different: read this notice and deploy it immediately". The argument is not "never update quickly": it is don't routinely deploy updates constantly that are not known to be high priority fixes.

> The argument is not "never update quickly": it is don't routinely deploy updates constantly that are not known to be high priority fixes. Yes. I'm saying that's wrong. The default should always be to upgrade to new upstream releases immediately. Only in exceptional cases should things be held back.

But that isn't what you said? ;P "f you wait seven days, you're pointlessly vulnerable." <- this is clearly a straw man, as no one is saying you'd wait seven days to deploy THAT patch... but, if some new configuration file feature is added, or it is ported to a new architecture you aren't using--aka, the 99.99% of patches--you don't deploy THOSE patches for a while (and I'd argue seven days is way way too small) until you get a feel that it isn't a supply chain attack (or what will become a zero day). Every now and then, someone tries to fix a serious bug... most of the time, you are just rolling the die on adding a new bug that someone can quickly find and exploit you using.

Re: We should all be using dependency cooldowns

#183

The think I find most odd about the constant pressure to update to the most recent and implied best version is that there is some implicit belief that software get's uniformly better with each release. Bottom line those security bugs are not all from version 1.0 , and when you update you may well just be swapping known bugs for unknown bugs. As has been said elsewhere - sure monitor published issues and patch if need…

> Bottom line those security bugs are not all from version 1.0, and when you update you may well just be swapping known bugs for unknown bugs.

One great example of that is log4shell. If you were still using version 1.0 (log4j 1.x), you were not vulnerable, since the bug was introduced in version 2.0 (log4j 2.x). There were some known vulnerabilities in log4j 1.x, but the most common configuration (logging only to a local file or to the console, no remote logging or other exotic stuff) was not affected by any of them.

Re: We should all be using dependency cooldowns

#186

The article assumes that the duration of the attack window is fixed and independent of the cooldown period. It's not. Once everyone waits to update the time until the vulnerability is found increases and the attack window will grow.

What if cooldowns were implemented by a package manager somewhat randomized, so that it’s more of a gradual rollout instead of a fixed cooldown period?

Re: We should all be using dependency cooldowns

#187
This assumes the direct mode of exploitation. The indirect mode (where an attacker inserts a vulnerability) does not necessarily have the 'short time span' issue. So not a complete solution by any means.

Also, there should a way to distinguish between security updates and normal updates for this. If there is, a cooldown is a useful idea in general for normal updates, since (presumably) the current version works and the new version may introduce bugs.

Re: We should all be using dependency cooldowns

#189
post #187

This assumes the direct mode of exploitation. The indirect mode (where an attacker inserts a vulnerability) does not necessarily have the 'short time span' issue. So not a complete solution by any means. Also, there should a way to distinguish between security updates and normal updates for this. If there is, a cooldown is a useful idea in general for normal updates, since (presumably) the current version works and t…

> This assumes the direct mode of exploitation. The indirect mode (where an attacker inserts a vulnerability) does not necessarily have the 'short time span' issue. So not a complete solution by any means.

The short time span isn’t just because exploits get attention: it’s to allow the groups which do automated analysis time to respond. Significantly increasing the challenge level for an attacker to introduce a vulnerability is a meaningful improvement even if it doesn’t prevent that class of attack entirely.

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