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Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

theguardian.com

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Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#191

Post by rsyring »

robertakarobin wrote: post #141
techietim wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my 7-year-old son just started half that dose This is horrifying.

We had/have a lot of reservations about it too, and discussed it at length with our pediatrician over months of observation. We decided what was more horrifying was hearing a 7-year-old — who has supportive family and friends, good health, no traumatic events, no major life changes going on, never worries where food/shelter is coming from — say he feels like "he shouldn't be on Earth anymore" and suddenly react with…

You seem to be handling the naysayers pretty well. But, still wanted to compliment you for sharing and encourage you not to let them get to you.

It sounds like you made a wise decision given your personal and family history and your son is benefiting. Kudos.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#192

Post by hintklb »

bgnn wrote: post #172

My own experience with SSRIs was very unpleasant. Sure, it worked to reduce my anxiety problems while I was on them for years. The first year I was off of them was the worst though. I didn't have that bad anxiety ever, as in constant panic and feeking of impeding doom. This made me realize that they aren't really an option of me. So began my long therapy journey. After 7 years of weekly therapy, a healthy work-life b…

My experience as well. SSRI and other similar drugs for anxiety remove a strong signal to your brain and bring other issues or signal.

But the issue is that nobody wants to really look at the cause. We are all trying to treat the symptoms with those quick-fix pills.

The cause is deep in our society. We are too stressed, lost touch with each others, work on meaningless jobs (or downright negative jobs for society.. if you work at Meta or TikTok, yes your job is in fact a negative for society).

I have also been on a journey for the last 5 years on working on myself and bringing those things back in my life and I have been feeling better than ever: - A lot of outdoor time and exercise. - Take the time to build a community of friends that genuinely care for each other - Work on some projects that you feel help humanity and each other (or volunteer). - Build things you are proud of. Build a legacy

All of those removed almost all anxiety and depression. It is not an easy journey but I'm shocked how few people even consider making those changes

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#193

Post by ToucanLoucan »

GOD_Over_Djinn wrote: post #167
robertakarobin wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide a source for that theory having been debunked? I agree that data has been found that is at odds with the various neurochemical theories but am not aware of the neurochemistry link as a whole having been definitely debunked.

[flagged]

Probably because the commenter is not a medical professional and isn't qualified to judge the veracity of anything they find. "Do your own research" is a fucking plague on our modern world and is why the internet is like wall to wall grifters now.

By all means, Google whatever you like, but if you show up to a doctors office waving WebMD sheets in a medical professionals face, you are going to be mocked and you deserve it.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#194

Post by nominalprose »

robertakarobin wrote: post #108

I was very young when my mom started Prozac but do remember how angry and sad she was before compared to after. Years later there was a time when me and my sister noticed our mom was acting a bit strange -- more snappish and irritable than usual, and she even started dressing differently. Then at dinner she announced proudly that she had been off Prozac for a month. My sister and I looked at each other and at the sam…

I recently started giving my 11 year old SAM-e, available over the counter and much faster acting than SSRIs for serotonin support. He's been much happier and more regulated since taking it. I'd encourage folk to read up on the literature around SAM-e and consider it as a lower risk alternative to try first, that may in fact work better.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#195

Post by jasonfarnon »

pyth0 wrote: post #137
jacobgkau wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because 7 years old is borderline too young to even make a depression diagnosis, and that kid's going to have his brain chemistry altered and essentially be addicted to a drug that he'll have to pay for for the rest of his life.

How can you believe it's both "no better than placebo" but also that it's "going to have his brain chemistry altered and essentially be addicted to a drug". SSRIs are not considered addictive, though people can develop a dependence if it provides them significant improvement.

The whole point of the linked article is that the drug is no better at placebo at treating depression but also carries a host of known side effects, besides unknowns when it comes to long term use. They're not saying it's inert.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#196

Post by jdietrich »

Modified3019 wrote: post #140
carsoon wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with suicidal depression is that if someone has created the thought pattern that death is best, then removing the symptoms of depression (lethargy, lack of energy, no willpower) now gives the person the ability to actually follow through with the act. Medications almost always target symptoms and never address root causes.

This is a good thing to know, but should also be noted that the same thing can happen with simply naturally recovering from a depressive episode. The phenomenon should not be considered a reason to not medicate (which I don’t think you are implying, but some may take that as the conclusion). Instead it’s definitely something important to explicitly make people aware of. Depression or the feeling so much mental agony…

A sudden improvement in mood is one of the key warning signs for suicide. Often it's genuinely just a sudden improvement, but sometimes it is a byproduct of the relief people experience when they commit to ending their life. If you know someone who is severely depressed, you should watch them very carefully if they suddenly seem carefree.

>once I noticed it also affected my ability to experience color

A small amount of evidence does support the notion that depressed people literally see the world as being less vibrant.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34689697/

https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/10.1503/jpn.200091

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#197

Post by mrguyorama »

pixelready wrote: post #14
carsoon wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with suicidal depression is that if someone has created the thought pattern that death is best, then removing the symptoms of depression (lethargy, lack of energy, no willpower) now gives the person the ability to actually follow through with the act. Medications almost always target symptoms and never address root causes.

Finding everyone’s cow is expensive and time consuming: https://antidepressantcow.org/2020/02/the-story-of-the-antid... But is the only true cure to the suffering. We’d have to undergo a massive reorganization of society (and upset a few hefty profit margins) to prioritize that, so we settle for the messy symptom management we have.

People would very likely still develop depression in whatever utopia you could imagine.

For starters, everybody has a different utopia, so no matter how you change society it "won't work" for someone.

And depression isn't sadness.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#198

Post by hintklb »

dekhn wrote: post #186
hintklb wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I agree or disagree with the underlying claim but a call to "credentialism" to dismiss someone's opinion is not as strong in 2025 as you think it is. The last few years have been a proof that even the "experts" are following strong political or personal ideology. Also we don't live in the 18th century anymore. A lot of knowledge (especially around medicine) is open to the world. People can read papers, under…

In this area, having credentials makes a difference. Experts matter. Few if any non-medical people can read medical papers and make sense of what they say. There is simply far too much context to evaluate such papers, especially in the cases of complex medical conditions.

Sorry but strong disagree here.

I have had a lot of Spinal and sleep issues. I have read almost all new literature on this niche subject and I have brought to my spine doctor some new therapy and treatments they had literally no idea about. Those treatments have changed my life.

As an engineer I read a lot of deep technical paper as my day job. Medical papers are comparatively relatively simple. The most complex part being usually the statistical data analysis.

We have pushed to a whole generation of people that only the "experts" can have opinion on some fields. I encourage everyone to read papers and have opinions on some of those subjects.

We are in 2025. That type of gatekeeping needs to go away. AI if anything, is going to really help with this as well.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#199

Post by jimbobimbo »

jacobgkau wrote: post #139
abraxas wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depression is almost never caused by actual life circumstance - just by your response and usually a delayed response. Also you should try your SSRI prescription. They really aren't very strong drugs. You might get mild relief or if you're like me and the majority of people you will see no effect whatsoever. It's worth a try anyway. You won't get "high" or "dull" or any of that nonsense. At best it will lift your mood…

> Also you should try your SSRI prescription. They really aren't very strong drugs. You might get mild relief or if you're like me and the majority of people you will see no effect whatsoever. It's worth a try anyway. Someone else in the thread's testifying with personal experience that there were significant withdrawl symptoms after only a few months: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45999622#46008522 Are they l…

It is true. Withdrawals from SSRIs are no joke and can take a long time.

Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts

#200

Post by jasonfarnon »

jdietrich wrote: post #190
area51org wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't go that far, but there was a now-famous study (Princeton?) that showed that doing aerobic exercise for maybe 30 mins every day, about five days per week, was equally effective at alleviating depression symptoms.

There's one big problem with that - getting seriously depressed people to do 30 minutes of exercise (or anything else) five days a week. "Get more exercise" is excellent advice for someone who feels a bit down, but it's absolutely useless for someone who can barely summon up the strength to eat or brush their teeth.

It gets even harder if you offer them the alternative of just taking a pill. For widespread health policy, we should want the proportion of depressives who will never learn to manage it themselves because a pill is offered to be smaller than the proportion for whom the pill is effective. I had always assumed these pills were effective enough but studies like these make me wonder.
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