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How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

heise.de

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Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#211

Post by dxdm »

PeterStuer wrote: post #188
dxdm wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP is talking about the invasion of Ukraine, taking place just beyond the EU eastern border, and very much shaking up the European security situation, and the EU and its member states are visibly having to "deal with it", diplomatically, economically and in terms of their practical defense postures. That's what they meant with "at the border", and not a literal invasion of the EU. (Edited for a less confrontational b…

[flagged]

> Problem is. As a European, who created this situation? Russia? Or the US?

I'm not going to argue with you about how Russia was forced to invade Ukraine and commit atrocities there or whatever you're hinting at, my dear fellow European.

Also, stop shifting the discussion and leave your apologetic narratives where they belong.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#212

Post by heisenbit »

Stranger43 wrote: post #93

The reluctance of the EU leadership to so anything materially significant about anything they claim to care about is kind of telling. It's either that the leadership is so caught up in their own ivory tower bubble of pure rhetoric to realize they havent really put in the logistics to actually affect reality or that they somehow don't really want the consequences of actually changing things. For this is pretty clear w…

The discussions shifts across the board but it takes time to shift due to momentum. The EU has many nations and many more companies all making strategic purchasing decisions. US dependence skeptics belittled earlier have now concrete examples and more weight. The shift can already observed in weapons system purchasing but won‘t be limited to those. For better or worse the US has lost its position of trust and is sadly working on cementing distrust for the next decades.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#213

Post by stonemetal12 »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #53
petcat wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is in a very tough spot right now. They're getting squeezed on all sides economically by USA and China while simultaneously facing a Russian invasion on their eastern borders. The relationship with the American administration has deteriorated badly and any action seen as "retaliation", such as this policy blockade, would almost definitely result in USA withdrawing even more support for Ukraine in the war. I think,…

> unless EU nations want to put boots on the ground. Is such a thing even possible in the EU? I understand that it's an economic and policy bloc. Does Brussels have the authority to raise an army from EU members?

Read again "EU nations" not the "EU", If some subset of the nations that are members of the EU decide to act cooperatively outside of economic policy that is with in their propagative, and wouldn't be too surprising outside of the sheer volume of politics involved.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#214

Post by prasadjoglekar »

devsda wrote: post #178
JeremyNT wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only the U.S. would actually sanction someone for trying to indict a war criminal. The problem is that only the US has the power to material harm people to such a degree by doing so. The amount of control that Big Tech has consolidated into a handful of US megacorporations is a massive danger to the entire world. The US devolving into an overt kleptocracy is a huge threat to freedom everywhere. Who can push back? O…

> Who can push back? Obviously not China or Russia, where the problems are even worse. Why not China or Russia or any other country with the capability? Competition is good even if some or all of the players are bad individually.

China, Russia are not members of the ICC for the same reason the US is not. They do not want extra territorial entities applying laws to their citizens and soldiers.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#215

Post by anon84873628 »

flag_fagger wrote: post #111
vfclists wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the sanctioned Israeli politicians and military commanders think those warrants are baseless, why don't they appear before the courts to defend themselves? This isn't really about the ICC judges. It is about the failure of the major Western countries who are part of the ICC to come to the defence of the judges who they have appointed to make those decisions, and the control Israeli politicians exercise over the Wh…

> Americans don't seem to understand how the moral character of their politicians and their political system is relentlessly degraded by the so called Israel lobby, or they don't care, or have resigned themselves to it. I mean, it’s causing a small rift in the GOP. Time will tell if that escalates any though. I stand firm in my believe that nothing ever happens though.

It is also causing a rift between "Leftists" who distinguish themselves from "Liberals" i.e. Democrats. Apparently there are many who didn't vote for Harris because she did not sufficiently distance from Israel and condemn the genocide.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#216

Post by mothballed »

bjord wrote: post #148
mothballed wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weev might be a real neo-nazi, but to be clear, right now an entire country (Ukraine) has also been claimed of being neo-nazis and life-altering state action taken against them without some due process to determine they are. Weev hasn't been convicted of anything serious (nor I think anything at all) that has stuck.

I'm not editorializing here. here's one of many examples: "Please, Donald Trump, kill the Jews, down to the last woman and child. Leave nothing left of the Jewish menace..." re: ukraine, I'm not sure how that's remotely relevant here and frankly I think you're doing ukrainians a profound disservice by comparing the two if you look at my background, you'll see I understand this better than most

Are you unaware that the exact same justification was used to attack the Ukrainian people? Your position here is weev is an actual neo-nazi while the Ukrainian people are not. I concede you are likely correct, and it is frankly obvious I'm not making the case they are compared as both being neo-nazis. It is still relevant because the failure mode is still paralleled, an accusation of neo-nazi and then serious state action taken without objective due process to ensure it is true.

By dismissing and frankly belittling my statement, you are falling for the same trap that justified so many dead Ukrainians.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#217

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

wat10000 wrote: post #180
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ideal scenario would have been if Ukraine had secretly retained 30-100 warheads. Everyone likes to prattle on about how they couldn't even have used them: those people are mentally retarded. A sophisticated government with nuclear and aerospace scientists could have easily dismantled interlocks and installed their own. Maybe not in a hurry, but they had 3 decades more or less. And if they didn't have the expertis…

The war might end in Ukraine being flattened by Russian nuclear weapons if that happened. Putin would be backed into a corner. End the invasion after suffering a nuclear strike (or just the threat of one) and he'll risk being deposed and meet a gruesome end. Retaliate overwhelmingly and risk escalation from other nuclear powers. It's not clear to me that the second risk would be worse, and definitely not clear to me…

>Putin would be backed into a corner.

He'd be backed into the door marked "exit". There is no corner to trap him here.

>End the invasion after suffering a nuclear strike

And why do you believe that Zelensky or whoever is in charge would nuke Moscow first? Do you think that, if they had say 30 nukes (plenty for a few relatively harmless demonstrations) that this would be the first target? Obviously they'd pick something that he could decide to de-escalate afterwards.

>they're only credible if used in response to a correspondingly severe threat.

You mean such as the severe threat that Ukraine has endured for a decade at this point? The war now threatens to make them functionally extinct. Many have fled and will never return, their population is reduced to something absurdly low, many of their children have been forcibly abducted to be indoctrinated or tormented/tortured.

That condition you impose was pre-satisfied.

>Certainly they're not an automatic "leave me alone" card.

Of course not. They'd have to be used intelligently (readers: "used" does not imply detonated). It's not entirely clear to me that this would be the case with Ukraine/Zelensky. But nothing less at this point will suffice. Even if the US promised to put 150,000 troops on the ground, this wouldn't end. It would only escalate. Perhaps to that nuclear war you seem to fear.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#218

Post by embedding-shape »

trzy wrote: post #199
embedding-shape wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So literally just like Cuba? The distance between US and Cuba is like 150km, if you're in Donetsk you can't even leave Donetsk Oblast if you travel 150km, and the shortest distance you can take from Ukraine Russia to closest EU/NATO member would be something like 600km if you don't take shortcuts via Belarus. For all intents and purposes, Ukraine's border with Russia is way further away (like magnitude) from EU/NATO…

What an absurd argument. If Ukraine falls, the Russians will marshal Ukrainian manpower and resources against the EU.

> What an absurd argument

What argument did I even make? Are you saying it's absurd that Russia's border to Ukraine is further away to the closest EU/NATO member than Cuba is to the US? Because if so, I think you need to open up a world map.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#219

Post by trzy »

dmix wrote: post #198
atoav wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another European: Yes? Invasion doesn't have to mean they plan to roll tanks all the way to Paris. Have you realized Russian agents blew up a train in Poland this week, after some weeks prior flying planes and drones into NATO airspace and disrupting air travel in Denmark with drones started from shadow fleet tankers. The grounds for further action are being tested as we speak. Invasion just means Russian soldiers…

> Invasion just means Russian soldiers enter Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Finnland. So invasion means a full war with NATO?

Given the pained debate here by Western Europeans over the semantics of “Europe” and Ukraine’s relationship therewith, it’s very unlikely NATO would act and that’s precisely what the Russians would bet on.
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