Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why top firms fire good workers

rochester.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 263 posts

Re: Why top firms fire good workers

#181

Post by triceratops »

mlrtime wrote: post #179
triceratops wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't mean that. The way it works in the movie industry is actors or writers can sign a contract with minimum union terms. Or, if they're a big name, their agent negotiates a contract on their behalf. From time to time the union membership will want improvements or changes to the minimum terms. If they don't get these terms then the union - stars and everyone else - goes on strike. These strikes are well publ…

I've only heard of one during covid, and mostly people didn't care (IMO).

> mostly people didn't care

I don't know what that means.

Re: Why top firms fire good workers

#182

Post by mlrtime »

triceratops wrote: post #170
mlrtime wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a cynical unoriginal take. No, I don't care about being in a unicorn and I'm not a embarrassed billionaire. But I don't idolize unions either. I don't want to be paid the same as all other workers with the same title, I like getting personal bonuses based on performance. I don't want to be in a union.

> I don't want to be paid the same as all other workers with the same title That's not what unions do. > I like getting personal bonuses based on performance A union doesn't prevent that. Film and TV actors, and professional athletes are in unions. They are not all paid the same. They get lavish bonuses based on performance. Retail and fast food workers are usually not in unions. They don't make much money. A union c…

So that would be the plan, to replicate entertainment industry union pay to the tech industry?

Has anyone seriously thought this through or is it just theory.

Re: Why top firms fire good workers

#183

Post by triceratops »

koliber wrote: post #172
triceratops wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to be paid the same as all other workers with the same title That's not what unions do. > I like getting personal bonuses based on performance A union doesn't prevent that. Film and TV actors, and professional athletes are in unions. They are not all paid the same. They get lavish bonuses based on performance. Retail and fast food workers are usually not in unions. They don't make much money. A union c…

I never worked at a union workplace. However, I’ve worked with underperforming colleagues who were could not be fired for whatever reason. It was miserable.

So...there's nothing about unions specifically that makes underperforming colleagues un-fireable right? Because you've seen that in non-union workplaces.

Union membership won't save Kylian Mbappe from being dropped to the bench if he doesn't score enough goals. His endorsement deals or his agent's influence might do it.

Re: Why top firms fire good workers

#184

Post by triceratops »

mlrtime wrote: post #182
triceratops wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to be paid the same as all other workers with the same title That's not what unions do. > I like getting personal bonuses based on performance A union doesn't prevent that. Film and TV actors, and professional athletes are in unions. They are not all paid the same. They get lavish bonuses based on performance. Retail and fast food workers are usually not in unions. They don't make much money. A union c…

So that would be the plan, to replicate entertainment industry union pay to the tech industry? Has anyone seriously thought this through or is it just theory.

I mean you're just here repeating the lazy old anti-union talking points with 0 thought. I offered some examples that contradict them. The burden of proof is on you at this point.

If not having unions leads to high wages and good working conditions, why aren't retail and fast food workers making bank? Why do they get treated like shit? Please tell us.

Re: Why top firms fire good workers

#185

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

ljf wrote: post #103
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when has a union ever stopped a multinational company from just closing shop and opening up overseas? If a company making physical things can do it, how hard do you think it would be for a software company?

While they cannot stop something like that (a Union never gets to control the business), they can at least negotiate good terms for the departing employees, and help ensure everything is in order.

Have you ever heard about someone who was laid off from a major tech company complain about the severance amount? My n=1 experience at BigTech is that I got $40K severance after 3 years (and anecdotally had 3 offers within two weeks of looking in 2023. But I realize the market is worse now than then)

And that severance was from Amazon.

Re: Why top firms fire good workers

#186

Post by kamaal »

franktankbank wrote: post #177
kamaal wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>You're a high performer, one year into the role. A colleague, who's been around longer but struggled, gets promoted not necessarily on merit, but on their ability to manage up. Its honestly mostly like a queue, you can't see why people who came before should get a early exit. But those people had people before them too, and thought the same. Now that you arrived, you think your specific case be prioritised above th…

Dave wins the race not because he got to the finish line first but because he has been coming to the race for decades. LOL dumb society.

More like Dave has been pushing up sacks of really valuable things up a hill, for years.

Jack who just arrived and pushed ONE sack up slightly faster than Dave, in the first week, thinks he must be promoted above Dave right then and there. Or its oppression.

To start with accept this thing first. Its human fallacy to confuse making rapid changes to a process as making fast progress. In reality sticking to one thing for long is what brings the big progress.

You might want to talk to martial arts people, stock investors/traders, musicians, surgeons, or anyone for that matter.

Someone who shows up on the 10001th morning, is not the same as some one who showed up on the 100th morning, even if the latter is some performing better creating a his own personal local maxima.

Re: Why top firms fire good workers

#187

Post by franktankbank »

kamaal wrote: post #186
franktankbank wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dave wins the race not because he got to the finish line first but because he has been coming to the race for decades. LOL dumb society.

More like Dave has been pushing up sacks of really valuable things up a hill, for years. Jack who just arrived and pushed ONE sack up slightly faster than Dave, in the first week, thinks he must be promoted above Dave right then and there. Or its oppression. To start with accept this thing first. Its human fallacy to confuse making rapid changes to a process as making fast progress. In reality sticking to one thing f…

Very good retort. I will insist both things happen and our views on it probably come down to life experience and current position.

I've too often seen Dave praised for carrying sacks day in day out instead of placing them on the goddamn conveyor belt. Some have come to doubt the conveyor belts utility when we could all just be carrying the sacks. In fact if we got rid of the conveyor belt we could hire our cousin and brother-in-law to be cool like Dave.

Re: Why top firms fire good workers

#188

Post by constantcrying »

German (and Japanese) industry has the exact opposite attitude and it makes me very curious what "top employees" means here, the only example given are managers, which is a group of people where performance is very difficult to measure and often based around person networking abilities and entirely divorced of performance.

That said any developer and engineering should be extremely careful when it comes to unions. In Germany they typically agitate against the interests of the engineers, especially in large companies. This comes naturally as unions get power according to democratic principles, so in most cases they agitate for benefits for unskilled workers at the cost of the engineers. At companies I worked for the Betriebsrat, which is staffed by the elected union, actively advocated for outsourcing engineering activities, so that manufacturing workers can get increased benefits.

Re: Why top firms fire good workers

#189

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

duskdozer wrote: post #175
mlrtime wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is where the union threads die, every time. Top post is essentially saying Americans/SWE are dumb for not being in a union, then comparing to other countries. As soon as someone companies US SWE salaries to these union countries it falls apart quickly.

The residents of many of these countries are able to tolerate lower salaries because they have guaranteed free/cheap at POS healthcare, stronger employment and disability protections (yes, often union-won, see Denmark), controlled and low educational expenses, and so on. Not to mention, after you get below top companies, dev earnings are much closer to other white-collar jobs

The average tech salary in Sweden is $50K-$80K from doing some quick Googling. In at major city in the US just doing run of the mill CRUD development a US developer should easily be making $130K-$150K after 3-5 years in the industry.

On the other hand, when I was at $BigTech, interns straight out of college in 2022 were being offered total comp packages of $165K and within 3 years and one promotion were making $240K and that was at Amazon. It’s nowhere near the top paying company.

Right now on my 10th job out of college I’m paying $700 a month pre-tax for family coverage through my company and even that is about the most I’ve ever paid. If I hit one with a low deductible it would be around $1100 a month.

Long Term Disability coverage if added on is around $10 a month.

But the larger point, with the discrepency between comp in the US and Sweden, a US tech worker should be able to build up an emergency fund.

Re: Why top firms fire good workers

#190

Post by flag_fagger »

mlrtime wrote: post #161
palmotea wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tech attracts the radical independent types. No. I think it's a combination of: 1) HN being associated with a startup incubator, and thus attracting a large contingent of people who see themselves as the boss doing this, not the workers affected; 2) tech attracts a certain kind of gullible person who's easily seduced by tidy little systems like the pop-capitalism of libertarian tracts; and 3) tech workers (until re…

>tech attracts a certain kind of gullible person This is incredibly condescending. This is exactly the type of elitism speak that tells people how to vote because they know whats better for them.

> This is exactly the type of elitism speak

Condescending towards who? Overpaid code monkeys? Maybe they should start a professional victimhood organization

> that tells people how to vote because they know whats better for them.

A large portion of this country doesn’t even have the self stewardship to not eat themselves to obesity. Such people should have no place in any political process ideally.

Post reply on HN