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Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects

cnn.com

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Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects

#31

Post by bijant »

baxtr wrote: post #12
johnisgood wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would what you said curb my enthusiasm for bees though? Can you provide me more specifics on this by the way? > This has some adversarial effect on other pollinators, which hurts ecosystems more than it helps. What are those adversarial effects, what other pollinators, and how does it hurt the ecosystem more than it helps? I do not mind bees having kept in higher numbers, and beekeepers can do it anywhere without…

I am no expert at all in this topic! So please take this with a grain of salt. I just have the feeling (maybe wrongly) that the love and focus for bees is having detrimental/ unwanted effects on the ecosystem. Here some more articles / discussions: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44505552 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44792207 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35668879

Why won’t you let „the ecosystem“ decide that on its own ? It’s much older than you and you are not its lega guardian. If the ecosystem (of which we are a part) decides it wants more honey bees than that’s what it shall get.

Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects

#32

Post by AndrewKemendo »

testfrequency wrote: post #8
sitkack wrote: post #4

We are learning so many wonderful things about Bees! They can count https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21222227 Bees play https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33369572 https://www.science.org/content/article/are-these-bumble-bee... All of this reinforces my belief that nearly everything is conscious and aware, we differ in a capabilities and resolution but we are all more similar than we are different. Spider Cogni…

I promise this isn’t a trap, it’s just my curiosity as a “flexitarian”. What (mostly) keeps me from eating animals is my mind wandering sometimes when making a protein choice about how they ended up there, wherever I am, not by choice. Are you vegan?

You can’t avoid the reality that’s your life depends on something else dying. Either plant insect or animal

How and why you draw the line on what is acceptable to kill is mostly arbitrary

I’d argue a mushroom or a bee are more “conscious” than most chickens

Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects

#33

Post by Ukv »

9991 wrote: post #21
ilt wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consciousness is a spectrum.

Even if that were true, how could you possibly know it?

Observing animals' behavior (in the wild and through experiments like the one here) and studying how their brains work to see that they often have the same kind of mental features as us (including whichever you'd classify as consciousness) - just at varying degrees of sophistication.

Some would argue that "consciousness" is something non-physical that has no impact on the physical world, and so is not physically detectable or responsible for any behavior, but I feel then it inherently cannot be whatever we mean by "consciousness" that we're directly aware of and talking about in the physical world (because that itself is a physical impact).

Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects

#35

Post by [deleted] »

johnisgood wrote: post #11
baxtr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I want to curb your enthusiasm for bees, but… I recently read that honey bees in particular get the most attention from humans lately, so they are kept in high numbers. This has some adversarial effect on other pollinators, which hurts ecosystems more than it helps.

Why would what you said curb my enthusiasm for bees though? Can you provide me more specifics on this by the way? > This has some adversarial effect on other pollinators, which hurts ecosystems more than it helps. What are those adversarial effects, what other pollinators, and how does it hurt the ecosystem more than it helps? I do not mind bees having kept in higher numbers, and beekeepers can do it anywhere without…

[deleted]

Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects

#36

Post by skeezyjefferson »

johnisgood wrote: post #11
baxtr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I want to curb your enthusiasm for bees, but… I recently read that honey bees in particular get the most attention from humans lately, so they are kept in high numbers. This has some adversarial effect on other pollinators, which hurts ecosystems more than it helps.

Why would what you said curb my enthusiasm for bees though? Can you provide me more specifics on this by the way? > This has some adversarial effect on other pollinators, which hurts ecosystems more than it helps. What are those adversarial effects, what other pollinators, and how does it hurt the ecosystem more than it helps? I do not mind bees having kept in higher numbers, and beekeepers can do it anywhere without…

[dead]

Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects

#37

Post by snthd »

bijant wrote: post #31
baxtr wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am no expert at all in this topic! So please take this with a grain of salt. I just have the feeling (maybe wrongly) that the love and focus for bees is having detrimental/ unwanted effects on the ecosystem. Here some more articles / discussions: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44505552 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44792207 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35668879

Why won’t you let „the ecosystem“ decide that on its own ? It’s much older than you and you are not its lega guardian. If the ecosystem (of which we are a part) decides it wants more honey bees than that’s what it shall get.

The idea that ecosystems naturally balance themselves is a pervasive myth.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/balan...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_nature

>It’s much older than you and you are not its legal guardian.

A fair few cultures believe they are. NZ recognises the Whanganui River as having legal personhood.

Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects

#38

Post by sethammons »

dartharva wrote: post #29
sitkack wrote: post #4

We are learning so many wonderful things about Bees! They can count https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21222227 Bees play https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33369572 https://www.science.org/content/article/are-these-bumble-bee... All of this reinforces my belief that nearly everything is conscious and aware, we differ in a capabilities and resolution but we are all more similar than we are different. Spider Cogni…

I remember reading somewhere that bees have the highest cognitive abilities of all insects

Thinking of smart bugs, check out the portia (aka jumping) spider. They plan multi-step, out of sight detours to ambush prey, and demonstrate impulse control. They have specialized hunting techniques for different menu items, one such is mimicking specific prey items stuck on a web to lure various types of spiders out.

Insect wise, bees have to take the cake. Symbolic communication and counting, and now time. This all tracks for something that needs to share the location of food with the colony.

Nature sure is neat.

Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects

#39

Post by rootbear »

johnisgood wrote: post #7
sitkack wrote: post #4

We are learning so many wonderful things about Bees! They can count https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21222227 Bees play https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33369572 https://www.science.org/content/article/are-these-bumble-bee... All of this reinforces my belief that nearly everything is conscious and aware, we differ in a capabilities and resolution but we are all more similar than we are different. Spider Cogni…

I love bees and ants, but I love bees the most. I would recommend people to study the behavior of bees and ants. Additionally, honey, propolis, etc. are super healthy, and we can thank bees for that.

Agreed! Bees are my favorite social insect (we share a love of hexagons, for one thing) and they seem to be especially intelligent.

Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects

#40

Post by nhecker »

fullstop wrote: post #25

When I think of insects, I see them as tiny microcontrollers. In my head bees have a little shift register to measure time. While ants have control over each limb, they mostly move by rotating two tripods one at a time. It's like they turn on an output for three legs, turn off the output, and then turn on the output for the other three legs. Ants can walk backward, though, so perhaps it is more like a half-bridge rec…

I read a paper long ago (so there's no chance of my recalling the source!) and one of the takeaways was that in a cockroach one of the neural ganglia basically had a binary "run!" mode that was flipped on instantly if sense nerves very close to it were triggered. So when researchers tapped or blew air on the rears of the roaches the roach in question would sprint away, its powerful legs being efficiently driven at full tilt by this little sprinting circuit without needing any input or interaction from the more complex main brain. Imagine getting used to that effect! "Ahhh! Why am I suddenly running and where am I going to steer this runaway body?"
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