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Questions for Cloudflare

entropicthoughts.com

61–70 of 71 posts

Re: Questions for Cloudflare

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? I don't remember telling anyone to trust the reviews? I think it is healthy to try alternatives to Cloudflare and then come to your own decision.

I'm not saying you did, but for me things like what I mentioned are red flags. They also use C#—another red flag. There's OVH, Hetzner, DigitalOcean, etc—all are private companies that aren't on Wall Street.

[deleted]

Re: Questions for Cloudflare

#62

"I don’t know. I wish technical organisations would be more thorough in investigating accidents." - This is just armchair quarterbacking at this point given that they were forthcoming during the incident and had a detailed post-mortem shortly after. The issue is that by not being a fly on the wall in the war room the OP is making massive assumptions about the level of discussions that take place about these types of…

"Armchair quarterbacking" is spot on.

The author asks for a deep, system-theoretic analysis... immediately after the incident. That's just not how reality works.

When the house is on fire, you put it out and write a quick "the wiring was bad" report so everyone calms down. You don't write a PhD thesis on electrical engineering standards within 24 hours. The deep feedback-loop analysis happens weeks later, usually internally.

Re: Questions for Cloudflare

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think it’s fair to blame me? Absolutely, yes. Where's your backup plan for when Visa doesn't behave as you expect? It's okay to not have one, but it's also your fault for not having one, and that is the sole reason that the lemonade stand went down.

> Where's your backup plan for when Visa doesn't behave as you expect? I don’t have (nor have to have) such a plan, I offer X service with Y guarantees paying out Z dollars if I don’t hold up my part of the bargain. In this hypothetical situation if Visa signs up I assumed they wanted to host their marketing website or some low-hanging fruit, it’s not my job to check what they’re using it for (in fact it would be pre…

The person above who replied to you thinks you're talking about a proverbial lemonade stand taking payments via Visa. That's the misunderstanding.

That aside, I think the example is good. It's a bit like priority inversion in scheduling. With no agreement from the lemonade seller they've suddenly changed greatly in terms of their criticality to some value creation chain.

Re: Questions for Cloudflare

#65

"I don’t know. I wish technical organisations would be more thorough in investigating accidents." - This is just armchair quarterbacking at this point given that they were forthcoming during the incident and had a detailed post-mortem shortly after. The issue is that by not being a fly on the wall in the war room the OP is making massive assumptions about the level of discussions that take place about these types of…

"Armchair quarterbacking" is spot on. The author asks for a deep, system-theoretic analysis... immediately after the incident. That's just not how reality works. When the house is on fire, you put it out and write a quick "the wiring was bad" report so everyone calms down. You don't write a PhD thesis on electrical engineering standards within 24 hours. The deep feedback-loop analysis happens weeks later, usually int…

> The deep feedback-loop analysis

Thinking the consideration of feedback loops requires "deep" analysis is, I suspect, part of the problem! The insufficient feedback shows up at a very shallow level.

Re: Questions for Cloudflare

#66
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes because both of those alternatives are non-profits right ?

You can sponsor Anubis right now and start supporting alternatives.

I think you are misunderstanding what cloudflare provides if you think Anubis is an alternative. Even if we only consider bot protection they are completely different solutions.

Re: Questions for Cloudflare

#67
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can sponsor Anubis right now and start supporting alternatives.

I think you are misunderstanding what cloudflare provides if you think Anubis is an alternative. Even if we only consider bot protection they are completely different solutions.

> I think you are misunderstanding what cloudflare provides if you think Anubis is an alternative...

Do you have an open source alternative especially if you are donating to the project?

Because I would to see Anubis and other alternatives thrive much more than closed ones like Cloudflare.

Re: Questions for Cloudflare

#68

"I don’t know. I wish technical organisations would be more thorough in investigating accidents." - This is just armchair quarterbacking at this point given that they were forthcoming during the incident and had a detailed post-mortem shortly after. The issue is that by not being a fly on the wall in the war room the OP is making massive assumptions about the level of discussions that take place about these types of…

People outside of tech (and some inside) can be really bad at understanding how something like this could slip through the cracks. Reading cloudflare's description of the problem, this is something that I could easily see my own company missing. It's the case that a file got too big which tanked performance enough to bring everything down. That's a VERY hard thing to test for. Especially since this appears to have be…

> This isn't a code update, it was a config update

Oh okay, well I guess the outage wasn't a real issue then

Re: Questions for Cloudflare

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> look at the uptime of card networks, stock exchanges, or airplane avionics. In fact, I'd say... airplane avionics are not what you should be looking at. Boeing's 787? Reboot every 51 days or risk the pilots getting wrong airspeed indicators! No, I'm not joking [1], and it's not the first time either [2], and it's not just Boeing [3]. [1] https://www.theregister.com/2020/04/02/boeing_787_power_cycl... [2] https://ww…

> Reboot every 51 days or risk the pilots getting wrong airspeed indicators If this is documented then fair enough - airlines don’t have to buy airplanes that need rebooting every 51 days, they can vote with their wallets and Boeing is welcome to fix it. If not documented, I hope regulators enforced penalties high enough to force Boeing to get their stuff together. Either way, the uptime of avionics (and redundancies…

Personally, I'm of the opinion that either of these three defects should not ever have been possible in the first place, that should have been prevented by formal verification.

If some dingus widget provider has a downtime, no one dies. If an airplane loses power mid flight due to a software error... that's not guaranteed any more.

Re: Questions for Cloudflare

#70
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are misunderstanding what cloudflare provides if you think Anubis is an alternative. Even if we only consider bot protection they are completely different solutions.

> I think you are misunderstanding what cloudflare provides if you think Anubis is an alternative... Do you have an open source alternative especially if you are donating to the project? Because I would to see Anubis and other alternatives thrive much more than closed ones like Cloudflare.

CDN are by essence proprietary because they are infrastructure vendors. They can be built with open source software but what they are selling isn't software, it's physical servers. The alternative is going on-prem which is impossible for CDN if you aren't google or meta.
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