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How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

theguardian.com

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Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#131

Post by lazyeye »

Refreeze5224 wrote: post #113
lazyeye wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either that or you lack the life experience, maturity and wisdom to accept that people can disagree with you without there being a conspiracy involved.

You specifically may not be in the Trump/MAGA cult, and there are others who simply do disagree, as you say. But there is undoubtedly a cult wing of MAGA. My mother is a member, and it checks every single box of cult behavior.

Sure just as is the case for the Democrat party and any other sufficiently large political organisation. There are elements of the Democrat party that think it's rational to mutilate children for example. I'm not aware of any MAGA supporters with this level of brain-washing.

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#132

Post by komali2 »

azdaz wrote: post #124
komali2 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is confusing because transgenderism describes a psychological reality - you are born trans or not, the same as if you're born straight or not - whereas cult membership or political ideology aren't inherent, unchangeable parts of your self. How are you managing to compare these unrelated things?

Evidence shows that it is not as inherent and built-in from birth as many people think, but is better characterised as a self-belief that can change over time. Detransitioners are probably the best-known example. There are others, like males with autogynephilia who eventually end up believing they are women, sometimes even in middle-age or later. Also, there are medical case reports about transsexuals with dementia f…

> Evidence shows that it is not as inherent and built-in from birth as many people think, but is better characterised as a self-belief that can change over time.

I have a lot of evidence in front of me that shows the opposite. What are you reading to lead you to the opposite conclusion?

> Detransitioners are probably the best-known example.

Transgenderism is incredibly rare in populations: .1% to .6% of the population. Of that, detransitioners are also incredibly rare: about 1%, and it's not clear yet what percentage of those stop taking puberty blockers or hormones because of financial reasons. Doesn't exactly make the case...

> As well as that, there are the "gender-fluid" people whose identity fluctuates rapidly rather than being fixed.

Correct, because gender is indeed a spectrum. Again that just seems to be making my case for me...

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#133

Post by amypetrik8 »

hn_user82179 wrote: post #126
dylan604 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40 to 60 enemas a day? Per person? Even for hyperbole, that sounds like a lot.

The article specifies that it was enough to cause hallucinations

it's called "ass tripping" and many have found it to be a epiphany-provoking spiritual journey. Jim Morrison was big on ass tripping for example.

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#134

Post by tsunagatta »

lazyeye wrote: post #131
Refreeze5224 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You specifically may not be in the Trump/MAGA cult, and there are others who simply do disagree, as you say. But there is undoubtedly a cult wing of MAGA. My mother is a member, and it checks every single box of cult behavior.

Sure just as is the case for the Democrat party and any other sufficiently large political organisation. There are elements of the Democrat party that think it's rational to mutilate children for example. I'm not aware of any MAGA supporters with this level of brain-washing.

> . . . mutilate children for example. I'm not aware of any MAGA supporters with this level of brain-washing.

Really? I’m sure a large portion of the MAGA base supports circumcision.

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#135

Post by UltraSane »

lazyeye wrote: post #131
Refreeze5224 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You specifically may not be in the Trump/MAGA cult, and there are others who simply do disagree, as you say. But there is undoubtedly a cult wing of MAGA. My mother is a member, and it checks every single box of cult behavior.

Sure just as is the case for the Democrat party and any other sufficiently large political organisation. There are elements of the Democrat party that think it's rational to mutilate children for example. I'm not aware of any MAGA supporters with this level of brain-washing.

Yet you watch Trump and his cabinet members lie every day.

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#136

Post by adornKey »

komali2 wrote: post #103
adornKey wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen a lot of Antifa things. They're into anti-MAGA things, have some kind of uniforms and merch and are actually quite violent. In certain places they are very visible, and aggressive. They are a good fit for a discussion about cults. I agree with the authors of the article. By being nice to them I broke some of them a little bit out of their loop.

I'm anti-fascist. I have a sticker on my laptop, and have hosted a BLM protest. No flags, no hats, and maybe 1% of my friends are involved in the way I am. If there's an antifa cult, I want to know about it, bcause I wouldn't mind some more friends in the scene. Again, can we please just be for real and stop playing a "both sides" game? There's a difference between dogmatism, and cultism.

[flagged]

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#137

Post by internet_points »

komali2 wrote: post #105
internet_points wrote: post #2

So that works if it's possible to actually reach the person and the family agrees that they need help to get out. What if the family is part of the problem or is tricked? (I recently read https://elan.school/ about this unimaginably horrible Kids for Cash-like scheme/cult. The only thing I can think of to prevent such things would be to get parents, teachers, lawmakers and social workers to read those stories too.)

Dude you can't just drop a link like that without warning how deep the rabbit hole goes. You posted this 5 hours ago. It's 2am here and I'm still reading from just a few minutes after you posted. This is a horrifying train wreck of a story, I can't look away. It's unbelievable these things went on for so long!

Ouf, yeah, maybe should have given more warning.. "Can't look away" indeed – I also got completely sucked into it after seeing a random link to it with no warning.

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#138

Post by komali2 »

adornKey wrote: post #136
komali2 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm anti-fascist. I have a sticker on my laptop, and have hosted a BLM protest. No flags, no hats, and maybe 1% of my friends are involved in the way I am. If there's an antifa cult, I want to know about it, bcause I wouldn't mind some more friends in the scene. Again, can we please just be for real and stop playing a "both sides" game? There's a difference between dogmatism, and cultism.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#139

Post by adornKey »

komali2 wrote: post #138
adornKey wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Maybe you got some things about me wrong. I'm very much anti-fascist, but around here anything labelled antifa is quite fascist. I don't care about anything Trump. The only connection I have to Trump is that I sometimes heard old grumpy Nazis from the German military complain that he doesn't support them enough in attacking Russia. But trusting him to be a man of peace is most likely a mistake.

At the moment I'm neutral and observe the situation. I sometimes hang out with guys from peace movements, and also go to some events of the guys they protest against.

Antifa never shows up when there's a protest against real bad guys (politics, weapon industry, human rights...). And they're far more likely to harass the people of peace and human rights movements. There have been events of actual violence in the past, but most harassment nowadays is online.

For the cult:

- they label others as fascists a lot (even if it makes no sense in that context) so their brain has a short and allows violence.

- there are uniforms. They wear black with mask. Masking is still a thing today - it's a solid cargo-cult.

- they have flags - lots of flags

- no hats, but masks - like real cultists

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#140

Post by meindnoch »

internet_points wrote: post #2

So that works if it's possible to actually reach the person and the family agrees that they need help to get out. What if the family is part of the problem or is tricked? (I recently read https://elan.school/ about this unimaginably horrible Kids for Cash-like scheme/cult. The only thing I can think of to prevent such things would be to get parents, teachers, lawmakers and social workers to read those stories too.)

I'm at chapter 74, haven't wrote a single line of code since yesterday, and will probably have to work over the weekend to catch up :(
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