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Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

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Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#541

Post by NooneAtAll3 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #76
GardenLetter27 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hackers should know the government is never on your side.

> Hackers should know the government is never on your side Never is naive. Hackers should understand governments are complex, dynamic and occasionally chaotic systems. Those systems can be influenced and sometimes controlled by various means. And those levers are generally available to anyone with a modicum of intelligence and motivation.

oh no, the dreaded "it's complicated" counter-argument!

making it complex helps nobody - everyone has to have a default

and default of "do not trust the glowies. EVER" is the better one

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#542

Post by int_19h »

gessha wrote: post #408
idrios wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations are like lines of code in a software project. They're good if well written, bad if not, and what matters more is how well they fit into the entire solution

A major difference with regulations is there’s no guaranteed executor of those metaphorical lines of code. If the law gets enforced, then yes, but if nobody enforces it, it loses meaning.

The worst possibility is selective enforcement.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#543

Post by imperfect_blue »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #317
pembrook wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ughhh here we go again. Every time GDPR is brought up on HN, the same "it's super simple to comply, just read it yourself!" religious incantation gets repeated ad-nauseam. I think it's because people love the idea of what they think GDPR actually represents (the fuzzy abstract idea of "privacy"), without ever diving into any of the implementation details. Almost nobody on this forum has ever talked to a lawyer about…

I mean, if your domestic legislation makes it impossible for you to ensure the privacy of your customers, why do you insist could be responsible custodians?

Imagine you're asked with building, say, a train network within your country. Domestic regulations demand that, because other countries are not certified up to your country's safety standards, you're not allowed to import any foreign technology from outside your country.

So - in order for you to build that train - you'd need to wait for industries to set up to build every single component up to local standards. And if nobody sets these industries up to manufacture the components you need, you'll have to build it yourself, somehow.

You'd rightfully call this out as protectionism. And the worst part is not even the protectionism - the worst part is that you'll likely get no trains, because in practice nobody except a huge incumbent company can build all the components they need themselves, and huge incumbent companies often have no incentive or no agility to do so.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#544

Post by Ferret7446 »

jlarocco wrote: post #453
l5870uoo9y wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with this otherwise seemingly reasonable position. Draghi's latest report pointed out that overregulation is a major problem in the EU and costs EU companies the equivalent of a 50% tariff (if I remember correctly). Of course, Draghi's report has led to nothing more than a few headlines.

The logical extreme there is legalizing murder for hire, human trafficking, and a bunch of other crazy stuff. Privacy is in a different category altogether, but there's more to think about than just how much things cost companies.

That's a straight up slippery slope logical fallacy.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#545

Post by Ferret7446 »

gessha wrote: post #412
l5870uoo9y wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with this otherwise seemingly reasonable position. Draghi's latest report pointed out that overregulation is a major problem in the EU and costs EU companies the equivalent of a 50% tariff (if I remember correctly). Of course, Draghi's report has led to nothing more than a few headlines.

I’m not saying the following regarding Draghi’s report or particular regulation in mind: If an unethical business gets started due to underregulation and it generates revenue and contributes to GDP, is that a good thing?

If the net social cost is less than the cost from overregulation, yes

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#546

Post by int_19h »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #471
energy123 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've stopped thinking of regulations as a single dial, where more regulations is bad or less regulations is bad. It entirely depends on what is being regulated and how. Some areas need more regulations, some areas need less. Some areas need altered regulation. Some areas have just the right regulations. Most regulations can be improved, some more than others.

[flagged]

Stuff like e.g. ChatControl is also regulations, so no, it doesn't follow at all. If in practice the people doing the regulating don't have your interests in mind, more regulations is indeed bad.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#548

Post by int_19h »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #524
palata wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that companies are not the sum of their employees. Employees are generally good; toxic humans are a small minority (unfortunately they tend to be over-represented at the head of companies). But put employees together into a profit-maximisation machine, and the machine will try to maximise profit, with dark patterns and downright evil things. Similar with our species as a whole: nobody is actively working…

That's why we need to realize, that decisions in the small constitute what happens in the large. If some person comes and tells me to implement dark patterns into the consent popup, I'll tell them that this is illegal. I'll also tell people, when their current consent is manufactured or when their cookie/consent popup does not conform with GDPR. Been there, done that. Only unfortunate, that it was not my role to deal…

It's not that people who implement those things don't care, per se. It's that they care about getting their paycheck more (or, in the current climate, retaining their job). And they are also acutely aware that if they refuse to do it, a replacement that won't is easy to find.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#549

Post by SoftTalker »

jychang wrote: post #454
energy123 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've stopped thinking of regulations as a single dial, where more regulations is bad or less regulations is bad. It entirely depends on what is being regulated and how. Some areas need more regulations, some areas need less. Some areas need altered regulation. Some areas have just the right regulations. Most regulations can be improved, some more than others.

I strongly agree with this position. This is basically the foundation of Control Theory! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_theory This is like arguing if "heater on" or "AC on" is better, which is a pointless argument. That entirely depends on what the temperature is!

And, at least in your example, sometimes you need both at the same time!

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#550

Post by cm2012 »

Neikius wrote: post #278
cm2012 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Number one use case is sending anonymized and hashed data back to the ad platform to trigger conversion events. Essentially all modern advertising is done algorithmically. The platform takes conversion events (a typical event is "someone fills out a form"), that signal is sent to the platforms, and the platforms use it to serve your ad to other people who may be interested. GDPR as it is means you need opt-in to do t…

Biggest issue with this is the modern web ads don't even work. You get ads for fridge AFTER you bought one since they now know you browsed them. What works is content based advertising - so advertise a power drill on a woodworking hobbyist site. No tracking required there. Conversion can be obtained when user clicks a link via redirect. Like in the good ol times. But this modern approach that massively invades privac…

It does work, I have seen enormous and well designed tests to show it.
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