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TypeScript: a language for application-scale JavaScript development

typescriptlang.org

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Re: TypeScript: a language for application-scale JavaScript development

#141

Post by tlrobinson »

wingspan wrote: post #114
tlrobinson wrote: post #33

This looks great, but the IDE seems to be one of the key features, so we're going to need something other than Visual Studio. EDIT: they've got syntax highlighting for some other editors, but full completion and error reporting is still needed http://blogs.msdn.com/b/interoperability/archive/2012/10/01/...

The language support in VS is really great, and getting better with each release. Go to definition, code outlining, folding, type information on hover, intellisense; all these make writing code much less easier and error prone, especially if you are used to writing in a language like C# or Java in a good IDE.

But does VS run on Mac OS X or Linux? Didn't think so.

Re: TypeScript: a language for application-scale JavaScript development

#142

Post by lstroud »

wingspan wrote: post #19

Awesome, great to see this finally released. I'm a dev in FUSE Labs ( http://fuse.microsoft.com ) and we've been dogfooding TypeScript for a while now. I'd be happy to answer any questions about using TypeScript vs vanilla JS, converting a large codebase, etc.

How does it compare to Dart & Harmony (even coffeescript)?

I know that is a long answer, but I'd love a bullet point list of how if compares to the other javascript++ languages that have been coming out over the last couple of years.

Re: TypeScript: a language for application-scale JavaScript development

#144

Post by skrebbel »

DougWebb wrote: post #89
cek wrote: post #4

Say what you want about whether this is a good idea or not, it is clear at least part of MS is really serious about open source. * TypeScript is under the Apache 2.0 license [1] * Source is available via git on Codeplex [2] * Installation is as easy as npm install -g typescript [3] Extra bonus coolness: They've provided an online playground like jsfiddle! [4]. [1] http://typescript.codeplex.com/license [2] http://typ…

I started doing C# development last year, coming from mostly a Unix/Perl platform, and I'm really glad about the timing because that's when Microsoft got serious about open development. I started doing web apps using ASP.NET MVC3, and this year MVC4 was released as an open-source project[1]. It seems that a bunch of 'young turks' have reached higher management positions in most of the key software development product…

Roughly the same story here. At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I feel that while most tech BigCos (e.g. Google, Apple) have become more evil over time, MS has actually become less evil, to the point that using their tech (and some major tech at that) is relatively free of any lock-in risk.

TypeScript seems very much in line with this trend, and I love it. This is exactly what I wanted - JavaScript but with decent safety and IDE support. And no more than that. I really hope that non-MS-geeks will embrace it and that Eclipse plugins and JetBrains tools and the likes will follow.

That said, ASP.NET MVC is a misguided and overrated Rails ripoff, IMHO. Where's all that great refactoring support if everything is made `dynamic` and stringly typed? What's up with matching parameters to method argument names? (I mean, change an argument name and your code breaks? wtf?) Since when does Microsoft tech favour magic over clarity?

Re: TypeScript: a language for application-scale JavaScript development

#145

Post by jonknee »

georgemcbay wrote: post #126
jonknee wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of js developpers hate javascript I don't know of any JS developers that hate JS. I know a lot that hate some browser implementations of JS though.

I've done quite a lot of JavaScript development, enough that I guess I'm a "JavaScript developer" (though thankfully that isn't my current day to day job) and I hate it. So now you know of at least one. I agree with everything camus said. Yes JavaScript has some cool stuff in it, but taken as a whole it is a pretty shitty language. This has less to do with the creation of JavaScript than it does the practical reality…

What are the problems with Javascript you speak of? The libraries hiding you from terrible bits, at least the ones I use, have to do with the DOM and not with Javascript.

Re: TypeScript: a language for application-scale JavaScript development

#147

Post by erichocean »

samspot wrote: post #104
erichocean wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been writing large-scale JS applications with SproutCore since 2007, and not once have I been bitten by a bug that would have been caught by static typing. Same with Objective-C and my iOS and Cocoa development (since the OpenStep days). I do use Scala on the server side though, and it helps there. But application development is, IMO, hindered by static typing. It's a lot more work to set up, and provides essent…

I noticed you mentioned scala on the server side. Does your comment about static typing being a hindrance apply to scala? I would also argue that static typing provides a self-documenting benefit that is easy to forget, making it easier for someone unfamiliar with the codebase to understand what is going on. When I'm doing maintenance work I often start at the point of failure and work backwards, and it is very helpf…

I haven't used Scala for application development (I'm talking about apps with a UI here). I really like it on the server -- easy to refactor, self documenting, great implicit typing so it feels like a "safer, faster" ruby or python.

I'm just really happy with Scala. Highly recommended, and the Akka library (Erlang for Scala, essentially) is fantastic.

Re: TypeScript: a language for application-scale JavaScript development

#148

Post by kofman »

camus wrote: post #57
arturadib wrote: post #49

All of these compile-to-JS efforts are great, and as much as I love things like CoffeeScript I have to say I definitely worry about language fragmentation. JavaScript is full of flaws, but its monopoly in the browser space has brought about one intriguing and welcome side-effect: a VERY efficient market for both employers and employees. It's easy to overlook how important this common denominator has been for everyone…

Javascript is dreadfull , and its flaws are counter productive and intolerable. It has good things like closures and first class functions , and that's it. Most of js developpers hate javascript , but are forced to work with it. So they dont care what they use as client language provided it gets the job done. few people cares about Javascript. most of the devs hate it. But the browser as dev plateform is a fact.

Agreed, it's a terrible language. Among other things, it makes it way too easy to write code which many people will read as being correct, but will actually be subtly incorrect.

A few of the weakest parts:

- for (var x in y) when used for array iteration or even dict iteration; hasOwnProperty? Really?

- x[obj] = y; seriously, did i really want '[Object object]' as my key?

- the choice of function level scope over block level scope

Re: TypeScript: a language for application-scale JavaScript development

#149

Post by snortblt »

jonknee wrote: post #71
camus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Javascript is dreadfull , and its flaws are counter productive and intolerable. It has good things like closures and first class functions , and that's it. Most of js developpers hate javascript , but are forced to work with it. So they dont care what they use as client language provided it gets the job done. few people cares about Javascript. most of the devs hate it. But the browser as dev plateform is a fact.

> Most of js developpers hate javascript I don't know of any JS developers that hate JS. I know a lot that hate some browser implementations of JS though.

I'll second that. I use it yet avoid it when possible. It's downright clunky compared to many scripting languages. Not completely broken, but broken enough.

Re: TypeScript: a language for application-scale JavaScript development

#150

Post by wwweston »

georgemcbay wrote: post #126
jonknee wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of js developpers hate javascript I don't know of any JS developers that hate JS. I know a lot that hate some browser implementations of JS though.

I've done quite a lot of JavaScript development, enough that I guess I'm a "JavaScript developer" (though thankfully that isn't my current day to day job) and I hate it. So now you know of at least one. I agree with everything camus said. Yes JavaScript has some cool stuff in it, but taken as a whole it is a pretty shitty language. This has less to do with the creation of JavaScript than it does the practical reality…

> good libraries that hide the shittiness of the language from you.

Ah, the "only the libraries make the language tolerable" argument.

My experience has pretty much been that most of the devs who thinks the libraries are hiding problems with the language are confused on one or both of the following points:

1) the distinction between the DOM and JavaScript (for those who don't know: jQuery and the like address problems with the former)

2) the idea that a language is terrible if it doesn't have a specific class-based OO model

Hard to say in your case, though, given that you didn't mention any specific problems or solutions presented by specific libraries.

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