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Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

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Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#361

Post by troupo »

nonethewiser wrote: post #246
vouwfietsman wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would EU governments use cookie banners They generally don't, because you don't need banners to store cookies that you need to store to have a working site . In other words, if you see cookie banner, somebody is asking to store/track stuff about you that's not really needed . Cookie banners were invented by the market as a loophole to continue dark patterns and bad practices. EU is catching flak because its ext…

In terms of whether or not the ubiquity of cookie banners is malicious compliance or if it was an inevitable consequence of GDPR, it doesnt matter if trackers are good or necessary. GDPR doesn't ban them. So having them and getting consent is just a normal consequence. We can say, "Wouldn't it have been nice if the bad UX of all these cookies organically led to the death of trackers," but it didn't. And now proponent…

No, those companies do not follow GDPR. They are testing how far they can go without triggering mass complaints etc.

See https://noyb.eu/en/where-did-all-reject-buttons-come

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#362

Post by imiric »

Well, that's a bummer.

Despite the sentiment on this forum that EU regulations are hindering tech progress, Europe is one of the few places in the world that actually tries to keep tech companies on a leash. We need much more of that, not less. The GDPR and the AI Act are far too weak, IMO. We've seen that fines when companies step out of line are simply the cost of doing business for them. Tech oligarchs should be getting jail time for every infraction instead.

I'm not too concerned for myself, since I don't trust any of these companies with my data anyway. But this is bad news for the majority of people who aren't tech savvy, or simply have "nothing to hide".

We know what happens when we let CEOs run a country. The last thing Europe needs is to follow USA's lead.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#363

Post by palata »

l5870uoo9y wrote: post #343
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 50% figure seems extremely dubious. I'd expect either methodological failures, or a definition of "costs" that I disagree with (e.g. fair-competition regulations preventing price-hikes, "costing" EU companies the profit they could obtain from a cartel). However, skimming the report ( https://commission.europa.eu/topics/competitiveness/draghi-r... ), I can't find the 50% figure.

> Mario Draghi has argued that the EU's internal barriers, which are equivalent to a high tariff rate, cost more than external tariffs. He has cited IMF estimates that show these internal barriers are equivalent to a \(45\%\) tariff on manufactured goods and a \(110\%\) tariff on services. These internal market restrictions, which include regulatory hurdles and bureaucracy, hinder cross-border competition and have a…

Sure, someone argues something. Who knows if it's right or wrong? It's not a hard science.

How do you estimate the cost of regulations on businesses? You ask businesses. Businesses have absolutely zero incentive to say that regulations are not bad. "Just in case", they will say it hurts them.

That is, until there is a de facto monopoly and they can't compete anymore, and at that point they start lobbying like crazy for... more regulations. Look at the drone industry: a chinese company, DJI, is light-years ahead of everybody else. What have US drone companies been doing in the last 5+ years? Begging for regulations.

All that to say, it is pretty clear that no regulations is bad, and infinitely many regulations is bad. Now what's extremely difficult is to know what amount of regulation is good. And even that is simplistic: it's not about an amount of regulation, it depends on each one. The cookie hell is not a problem of regulations, it's a problem of businesses being arseholes. They know it sucks, they know they don't do anything with those cookies, but they still decide that their website will start with a goddamn cookie popup because... well because the sum of all those good humans working in those businesses results in businesses that are, themselves, big arseholes.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#364

Post by Spunkie »

Spivak wrote: post #207
bitpush wrote: post #16

Incredible to see the 180 both from EU and also from the HN sentiment. HN was cheering on as EU went after Big Tech companies, especially Meta. Meta is no perfect company, but the amount of 'please stick it to them' was strong (I reckon that is still a bridge too far for a lot of folks here). Even extreme proponents of big tech villanery in the US (Lina Khan's FTC) is also facing losses (They just lost their monument…

Well yeah, the GPDR was great in theory and a huge win for privacy advocates until it did jack shit in practice. It turned out to have zero teeth and everyone just found ways to keep business as usual while 'complying' with the law.

I think it's ridiculous to say GDPR did "jack shit". I now have the ability to withdraw consent for tracking/marketing cookies on every major companies website I visit. An option that was near non-existent before GDPR.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#365

Post by wizzwizz4 »

l5870uoo9y wrote: post #343
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 50% figure seems extremely dubious. I'd expect either methodological failures, or a definition of "costs" that I disagree with (e.g. fair-competition regulations preventing price-hikes, "costing" EU companies the profit they could obtain from a cartel). However, skimming the report ( https://commission.europa.eu/topics/competitiveness/draghi-r... ), I can't find the 50% figure.

> Mario Draghi has argued that the EU's internal barriers, which are equivalent to a high tariff rate, cost more than external tariffs. He has cited IMF estimates that show these internal barriers are equivalent to a \(45\%\) tariff on manufactured goods and a \(110\%\) tariff on services. These internal market restrictions, which include regulatory hurdles and bureaucracy, hinder cross-border competition and have a…

That article does contain the correct answer, so thank you very much for finding it, although the passage you've quoted is ChatGPT gibberish not in the source given.

Per https://iep.unibocconi.eu/europes-internal-tariffs-why-imfs-..., the model treats shopping local as evidence of the existence of a trade barrier, as opposed to a rational preference based on cultural and environmental considerations. This is why the numbers are ridiculously high. (Is there a 120% implicit tariff for textiles? Or do people just prefer warm clothes in the north and breezy clothes in the Mediterranean?)

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#366

Post by constantcrying »

The changes to the GDPR are completely irrelevant compared to what the EU is planning with chat control.

The Commission is completely out of control, pushing through (or at least trying to) vast amounts of awful legislation, while the democratic processes are totally failing.

What this bloc desperately needs is leadership, which represents collective economic interests on a global stage, not some more pieces of legislation trying to control the Internet or putting the entirety of EU citizens under suspicion of raping children.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#367

Post by palata »

shoddydoordesk wrote: post #311
rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

Who is the audience your comment is trying to reach? Who are these mysterious "companies"? It's important to realize companies are made of people. Someone had to explicitly code the dark pattern in the GDPR cookie dialog. Ever notice the button for "Accept All" is big and shiny, while refusing all is more often than not a cumbersome, multi-click process? That's not an accident. That was coded by people. People around…

My theory is that companies are not the sum of their employees. Employees are generally good; toxic humans are a small minority (unfortunately they tend to be over-represented at the head of companies).

But put employees together into a profit-maximisation machine, and the machine will try to maximise profit, with dark patterns and downright evil things.

Similar with our species as a whole: nobody is actively working to break the climate so much that their kids will die long before they reach the age of retirement. But that's what we as a species are doing together, somehow. Individually, we don't want that, but that's not enough.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#368

Post by Someone »

betaby wrote: post #287
rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

That cookie thing should a browser's default.

FTA: “Under the new proposal, some “non-risk” cookies won’t trigger pop-ups at all, and users would be able to control others from central browser controls that apply to websites broadly.”

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#369

Post by pixxel »

radicalbyte wrote: post #35
bitpush wrote: post #16

Incredible to see the 180 both from EU and also from the HN sentiment. HN was cheering on as EU went after Big Tech companies, especially Meta. Meta is no perfect company, but the amount of 'please stick it to them' was strong (I reckon that is still a bridge too far for a lot of folks here). Even extreme proponents of big tech villanery in the US (Lina Khan's FTC) is also facing losses (They just lost their monument…

There has been a change in the community here over the last decade, we've lost a lot of the hacker spirit and have a larger proportion of "chancers", people who are only in tech to "get rich quick". The legacy of ZIRP combined with The Social Network marketing.

[dead]

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#370

Post by palata »

GardenLetter27 wrote: post #49
radicalbyte wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has been a change in the community here over the last decade, we've lost a lot of the hacker spirit and have a larger proportion of "chancers", people who are only in tech to "get rich quick". The legacy of ZIRP combined with The Social Network marketing.

Hackers should know the government is never on your side.

In a democracy, the government is its citizen. It sucks when you disagree with the majority of the voters, of course. But it's wrong to say that the government is against the majority of the voters: it was elected by them.
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