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Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

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Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#301

Post by d-lisp »

shadowgovt wrote: post #226
danishSuri1994 wrote: post #110

I sympathize with the startup argument: heavy compliance costs can stifle early innovation. But the solution shouldn’t be “weaker rules.” It should be smarter rules, clearer safe harbors for small actors, browser-level consent primitives for users, and stronger enforcement against dark-pattern CMPs. That keeps privacy meaningful without killing small businesses.

Browser level consent primitives would be a significant improvement on the status quo.

I second this; I have never been "into" these problematics and as a user I generally just disallow everything I can, which can be a pain (I mean I do want to often don't store anything when I'm browsing the web, which leads to meeting a lot of "cookie banners"). While there are probably browser extensions that can perform the automatic opt-out, it would be nice if browsers provided an API as an unified and centralized way to communicate consentment as a set of privilege access to different browser features and APIs (you could e.g. forbid the use of canvas, or even JS entirely).

But that's only a small part of a huge legal frame, and as I said I don't know much about these problematics.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#302

Post by zelphirkalt »

tsoukase wrote: post #292
rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

Using an Ad blocker I feel regret for stealing the site's revenue. So I allow them to collect my personal data. Anyways, I think most of them will not respect my rejection.

A site that cannot exist without collecting not needed personal data and without selling out its visitors, has no justification of continuing to exist. Don't let them guilt-trip you.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#303

Post by aDyslecticCrow »

johndhi wrote: post #280

Protecting users in the bargains we strike with big tech is a worthwhile and noble effort, but privacy law has generally woefully failed to do this. Millions upon millions have been spent on cookie banners -- people are still arguing about them in this thread -- but there is almost zero benefit to this expense. The main thing that's good about this, IMO, is that fundamentally training a large language model and priva…

> Training a large language model and privacy law as it's written today cannot coexist

If they aren't compatible, then the conclusion is abundantly obvious; the LLM has to go, not privacy. Small and questionable economic utility in exchange for a pillar of stable democratic society are NOT negotiable tradeoff.

There is enough data on the internet to train LLMs without breaking a single privacy law. If the economic value of LLMs are as real as the companies like to claim, there is enough data on the internet to train LLMs while paying for proper royalty for every single word.

I don't argue that privacy laws have been perfect. Only a fraction of GDPR seems to actually do much. But bending over backwards because big tech slips a few dollars in the pocket of Brussels is NOT the reason we should revise those laws.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#304

Post by energy123 »

rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

I've stopped thinking of regulations as a single dial, where more regulations is bad or less regulations is bad. It entirely depends on what is being regulated and how. Some areas need more regulations, some areas need less. Some areas need altered regulation. Some areas have just the right regulations. Most regulations can be improved, some more than others.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#305

Post by Fargren »

betaby wrote: post #287
rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

That cookie thing should a browser's default.

That would be fine, if there was a law that forced every browser to have this setting and every company to respect the setting.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#307

Post by Etheryte »

impulser_ wrote: post #300
rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

Yeah, but a lot of the rules around privacy and personal data make it hard to accept business from Europeans. If you are a small business or startup you might not even accept business from Europeans because navigating these rules are almost impossible.

I'm not sure how this makes sense. Functionally the rules are the same across the entire bloc and it's pretty straightforward: unless you have a legitimate reason to store the data, you need to ask for consent and the consent must be free. I want to make more money is not a legitimate reason. I have a legal requirement to fight financial fraud is a legitimate reason. Obviously the reality is more nuanced, but understanding this basic idea gets you there 95% of the way.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#308

Post by Aloisius »

mikece wrote: post #22

How about this as a privacy law: if you collect data about people without their EXPLICIT permission[1] you can be charged with digital stalking. Same principle as stalking; escalating penalties for repeat offenses and for doing so in bulk or en masse. EDIT: And you cannot share information gained by permitted collection unless EXPLICIT permission to share is granted. [1] Eg: it's not sufficient to disclose this in eq…

What constitutes data about people?

If I save your comment, am I a digital stalker? Is Google a digital stalker because they archived this page? Is HN a digital stalker because they didn't get your explicit permission to show a profile page with your karma on it?

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#309

Post by debazel »

mihaaly wrote: post #277
cm2012 wrote: post #91

This is such an important change for Europe. I've worked with 100+ start-ups as a consultant, and I've talked to EU ones who have been strangled by some of the regulations.

I do not care about 100s of startups and how they want to use my data for advertisement or other things they benefit from. I care about keeping my personal data private so it will be more difficult to use for profiling me for whatever (whatever!) reason, but all are for other's benefit on no or marginal benefit for me in overwhelmingly major part of the cases. If startups cannot do properly, then they should not do a…

Sure and that's why EU now has the weakest tech sector of any service industry and have become absolutely dependent on US and Chinese software instead.

I cannot even use my official government ID application that is mandatory almost everywhere without signing on to Google or Apple, so much for data privacy and sovereignty.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#310

Post by kronicum2025 »

rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

> But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white.

you are wrong. If one followed your ways, we would never do a lot of things. There are things called regulatory sandboxes for a reason. But those don't really work in fields where the "scale of the data" is the core reason of why things work.

Chat control is stupid.

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