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LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

blog.kagi.com

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Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#41

Post by yesfitz »

VHRanger wrote: post #38
candiddevmike wrote: post #13

The problem is, I'm not expected to be a bullshitter, and I don't expect others to be either (just say you don't know!). So delegating work to a LLM or working with others who do becomes very, very frustrating.

LLMs can be useful as a tool, you shouldn't "delegate" work mindlessly to them. I don't "delegate" work to my nail gun or dishwasher, I work with the tool to achieve better productivity than without. When viewed in this framing, LLMs are undoubtedly a useful tool.

Could you provide the steps you take to use LLMs as a tool?

I'd like to compare them to the steps I would take to delegate a task to another human.

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#42

Post by reckoning »

> LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

But this is itself an issue.

LLMs aside, whenever people see a human bullshitter, identifies them as a bullshitter, and then thinks to themselves, "Ah! But this bullshitter will be useful to me" it is only a matter of time before that faustian deal, of allowing harm for the people who put trust in you in exchange for easy returns, turns to harming for you eventually.

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#43

Post by VHRanger »

yesfitz wrote: post #41
VHRanger wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs can be useful as a tool, you shouldn't "delegate" work mindlessly to them. I don't "delegate" work to my nail gun or dishwasher, I work with the tool to achieve better productivity than without. When viewed in this framing, LLMs are undoubtedly a useful tool.

Could you provide the steps you take to use LLMs as a tool? I'd like to compare them to the steps I would take to delegate a task to another human.

Keep feedback loops short and critical output to be verified by humans short.

So this means that outputted answers in something like Kagi Assistant shouldn't be like those "Deep Research" report products where humans inevitably skim over the pages of outputted text.

Similarly if you're using an LLM for coding or to write, keep diffs small and iteration cycles short.

The point is to design the workflow to keep the human in the loop as much as possible, instead of "turn your brain off" coding style.

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#44

Post by cpburns2009 »

VHRanger wrote: post #30
cpburns2009 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this at all. What fundamental limitation of a mother prevents her from operating on her son?

It's a classic riddle from the late 20th century when surgeons were rarely female.

But what does the prevalence of women being surgeons have to do with a female surgeon being unable to operate on her son?

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#45

Post by cpburns2009 »

cogman10 wrote: post #31
cpburns2009 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this at all. What fundamental limitation of a mother prevents her from operating on her son?

It can be emotionally hard to cut into your own kid or to witness them go into a critical situation. AFAIK, there's no actual limitation that prevents this, but just a general understanding that someone non-related to the patient would be able to handle the stress of surgery better.

I get that but that would be the case regardless of whether the surgeon was the mother or father.

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#46

Post by cogman10 »

cpburns2009 wrote: post #45
cogman10 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be emotionally hard to cut into your own kid or to witness them go into a critical situation. AFAIK, there's no actual limitation that prevents this, but just a general understanding that someone non-related to the patient would be able to handle the stress of surgery better.

I get that but that would be the case regardless of whether the surgeon was the mother or father.

The original riddle goes something like this

> A father and son were in a car accident where the father was killed. The ambulance brought the son to the hospital. He needed immediate surgery. In the operating room, a doctor came in and looked at the little boy and said I can't operate on him he is my son. Who is the doctor?

The riddle is literally just a play on "women can't be surgeons."

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#47

Post by f30e3dfed1c9 »

cpburns2009 wrote: post #44
VHRanger wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a classic riddle from the late 20th century when surgeons were rarely female.

But what does the prevalence of women being surgeons have to do with a female surgeon being unable to operate on her son?

It is generally considered unethical for medical doctors to treat family members.

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#48

Post by cpburns2009 »

cogman10 wrote: post #46
cpburns2009 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that but that would be the case regardless of whether the surgeon was the mother or father.

The original riddle goes something like this > A father and son were in a car accident where the father was killed. The ambulance brought the son to the hospital. He needed immediate surgery. In the operating room, a doctor came in and looked at the little boy and said I can't operate on him he is my son. Who is the doctor? The riddle is literally just a play on "women can't be surgeons."

Thanks for providing the whole riddle. Now it makes sense.

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#49

Post by cpburns2009 »

f30e3dfed1c9 wrote: post #47
cpburns2009 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what does the prevalence of women being surgeons have to do with a female surgeon being unable to operate on her son?

It is generally considered unethical for medical doctors to treat family members.

That would be the case regardless of the sex of the parent.
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