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LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

blog.kagi.com

31–40 of 59 posts

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are randomized systems, sometimes you'll get a good answer. Try again a couple times and you'll probably reproduce the issue. Here's what I got from ChatGPT on my first try: This is a *twist* on the classic riddle: > “A surgeon says ‘I can’t operate on this boy—he’s my son.’ How is that possible?” > Answer: *The surgeon is the boy’s mother.* In your version, the nurse keeps calling the surgeon “sir” and treatin…

I don't understand this at all. What fundamental limitation of a mother prevents her from operating on her son?

It can be emotionally hard to cut into your own kid or to witness them go into a critical situation.

AFAIK, there's no actual limitation that prevents this, but just a general understanding that someone non-related to the patient would be able to handle the stress of surgery better.

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#32
LLMs are so very good at emitting plausible, authoritative-sounding, and clearly stated summaries of their training data. And if you ask them even fundamental questions about a subject of which you yourself have knowledge, they are too often astonishingly and utterly incorrect. It's important to remember this (avoiding "Gell-Mann amnesia"!) when looking at "AI" search results for things that you don't know -- and that's probably most of what you search for, when you think about it. I.e., if you indignantly flung Bill Bryson's book on the English language across the room, maybe you shouldn't take his book on general science too seriously later.

"AI" search results would perhaps be better for all of us if, instead of having perfect spelling and usage, and an overall well-informed tone, they were cast as transcriptions of what some rando at a bar might say if you asked them about something. "Hell, man, I dunno."

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#33

LLMs are so very good at emitting plausible, authoritative-sounding, and clearly stated summaries of their training data. And if you ask them even fundamental questions about a subject of which you yourself have knowledge, they are too often astonishingly and utterly incorrect. It's important to remember this (avoiding "Gell-Mann amnesia"!) when looking at "AI" search results for things that you don't know -- and tha…

A coworker of mine recently ran into this. Had they listened to the AI they'd have committed tax fraud.

The AI very confidently told them that a household with 2 people working could have 1 person with a family HSA and the other with an individual HSA (you cannot).

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#34
post #8

I've come to cease all "inquiry" type usage of LLMs because of this. You really can't trust anything they say at all that isn't verified by a domain expert. But I can let it write code for me, and the proof is in the PR. I think ultimately the real value in these things is agentic usage, not knowledge generation.

LLMs can't generate knowledge - they don't have a concept of truth.

They're very useful for research tasks, however, especially when the application is built to enforce citation behavior

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#35

Every time people post these 'gotcha' LLM failures, they never work when I try them myself. E.g. ChatGPT has no problem with the surgeon being a dog: https://chatgpt.com/share/691e04cc-5b30-800c-8687-389756f36d... Neither does Gemini: https://gemini.google.com/share/6c2d08b2ca1a

Hi, author here! One issue with private LLM tests (including gotcha questions) is that they take time to design and once public, they become irrelevant. So I'm wary of sharing too many in a public blog. The surgeon dog was well known in May, the newest generation of models have all corrected against it. Those gotcha questions are generally called "misguided attention" traps, they're useful for blogs because they're s…

I try that one and it answers 'Pierre', while pointing out that it is a trick question designed to make you think of the classic riddle.

https://gemini.google.com/share/d86b0bf4f307

I don't believe they are intentionally correcting for these, but rather newer models (especially thinking/reasoning models) are more robust against them.

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#36
post #16

This post is a little bizarre to me because it cherry picks some of the worst pairings of problem and LLM without calling out that it did so. At pretty much every turn the author picks one of the worst possible models for the problem that they present. Especially oddly for an article written today, all of the ones with an objective answer work just fine [1] if you use a halfway decent thinking model like 5 Thinking.…

Hi, author here!

The hyperactivation traps (formal name: misguided attention puzzles) are mostly used as a rhetorical device in my post to show how LLMs come up to a verbal response by a different process than humans in an entertaining manner.

The surgeon dog was well known in May, the newest generation of models have all corrected against it. I did cherry pick examples that look insane (of course), but it's trivial to get that behavior even with yesterday's Gemini 3. Because activation paths are an unfixable feature of how LLMs are made.

One issue with private LLM tests (including gotcha questions) is that they take time to design and once public, they become irrelevant. So I'm wary of sharing too many in a public blog.

I can give you some more, just for fun. Gemini 3 fails these:

Jean Paul and Pierre own three banks nearby together in Paris. Jean Paul owns a bank by the bridge What has two banks and money in Paris near the water?

You can also see variants that mix intruction finetuning being overdone. Here's an example:

Svp traduire la suivante en francais: what has two banks but no money, Answer in a single word.

The "answer in XXX" snippet triggers finetuned instruction following behavior, which breaks the original french language translation task.

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#37

The problem I have with LLM-powered products is that they’re not marketed as LLMs, but as magic answer machines with phd-level pan-expertise. Lots of people in tech get frustrated and defensive when people criticize LLM-powered products and offer a defense as if people are criticizing LLMs as a technology. It’s perfectly reasonable for people to judge these products based on the way they’re presented as products. Kag…

Right, this is why I (author here) close the article mentioning that product design needs to keep the humans in the loop for these models to be useful.

If the product is designed assuming humans will turn their brain off while using it, the fundamental unreliability of LLM behavior will create problems.

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#38

The problem is, I'm not expected to be a bullshitter, and I don't expect others to be either (just say you don't know!). So delegating work to a LLM or working with others who do becomes very, very frustrating.

LLMs can be useful as a tool, you shouldn't "delegate" work mindlessly to them.

I don't "delegate" work to my nail gun or dishwasher, I work with the tool to achieve better productivity than without.

When viewed in this framing, LLMs are undoubtedly a useful tool.

Re: LLMs are bullshitters. But that doesn't mean they're not useful

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, author here! One issue with private LLM tests (including gotcha questions) is that they take time to design and once public, they become irrelevant. So I'm wary of sharing too many in a public blog. The surgeon dog was well known in May, the newest generation of models have all corrected against it. Those gotcha questions are generally called "misguided attention" traps, they're useful for blogs because they're s…

I try that one and it answers 'Pierre', while pointing out that it is a trick question designed to make you think of the classic riddle. https://gemini.google.com/share/d86b0bf4f307 I don't believe they are intentionally correcting for these, but rather newer models (especially thinking/reasoning models) are more robust against them.

Ah, might have been the temperature settings on the API I used. It seems to pass it on high reasoning and temperature=1.0 but it failed when I was writing the comment with different settings (copy pasting the string into an open command line).

Reasoning models are absolutely more robust against hyper-activation traps like these. One basic reason is that by outputting a bunch of CoT tokens before answering, they dilute the hyper activation. Also, after the surgeon mother thing making the news, the models in the last 1-2 months have some fine tuning against the obvious patterns.

But it's still relatively easy to get some similar behavior out of LLMs, even Gemini 3 Pro, especially if you know where that model was overtrained (instruction tuning, QA tuning, safety tuning, etc.)

Here's a variant that seems to still trip up Gemini 3 Pro on high reasoning, temperature = 1.0 with no system prompt:

```

In 2079, corporate mergers have left the USA with only two financial institutions: Wells Fargo and Chase. They are both situated on wall street, and together hold all of the country's financial assets.

What has two banks and all the money?

```

One interesting fact is that reasoning doesn't seem to make the psychosis behavior better over longer chats. It might actually make it worse in some cases (I have yet to measure) by more rapidly stuffing the context with even more psychosis-related text.

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