From the blog post: "Although ending the patent system is a clean solution to all the problems induced by modern patenting, it clearly is not desirable given the importance of industries like the pharmaceutical industry. Since this industry spends on average hundreds of millions of dollars bringing to market a successful drug, pharmaceutical companies would not invest such large sums without the protection of patents…
Reforming the Patent System Toward a Minimalist System
31–40 of 46 posts
Re: Reforming the Patent System Toward a Minimalist System
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
We'd probably have better and cheaper drugs without the patent system. If more companies can make and sell the same drug, more companies can also fund research. Patents should be categorically banned.
no. the upfront costs for pharma development are prohibitive. the chances of a new molecule making it through clinical trials is really small. the economic crisis has put a lot of emphasis on efficacy for inclusion on various formulary schemes, be it private ones like in the US or state-run ones like in EU. now you need an approved product that is also not only marginally better than existing stuff. just takes away s…
No. If there is a problem with the FDA approval system, let's fix that. Unless it's even more hopeless than reforming (or abolishing) the patent system?
> the whole patent system was invented for a reason.
Yes, but it doesn't matter in the slightest. What matters is what the patent system actually does, and the consequences of removing it. Speaking of which:
> abolish it there and drug development will only happen through government programs.
Probably. However, it may not be so bad if we fix problem A, namely the FDA. Also see "Against Intellectual Monopoly"[1], which talks about the pharmaceutical industry in its 9th chapter.
[1] http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/againstfinal.ht...
Re: Reforming the Patent System Toward a Minimalist System
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
no. the upfront costs for pharma development are prohibitive. the chances of a new molecule making it through clinical trials is really small. the economic crisis has put a lot of emphasis on efficacy for inclusion on various formulary schemes, be it private ones like in the US or state-run ones like in EU. now you need an approved product that is also not only marginally better than existing stuff. just takes away s…
We have problem A, which is alleviated by crutch B. Therefore, do not remove the crutch. No. If there is a problem with the FDA approval system, let's fix that. Unless it's even more hopeless than reforming (or abolishing) the patent system? > the whole patent system was invented for a reason. Yes, but it doesn't matter in the slightest. What matters is what the patent system actually does, and the consequences of re…
Speeding up the process would be dangerous as it is about human health and side effects take time to surface. You want to be really sure before you approve a new molecule. Contergan showed what can go wrong.
And the FDA process being public is a good thing too. Transparency is important. Just like openly documented patent claims.
Re: Reforming the Patent System Toward a Minimalist System
#34From the blog post: "Although ending the patent system is a clean solution to all the problems induced by modern patenting, it clearly is not desirable given the importance of industries like the pharmaceutical industry. Since this industry spends on average hundreds of millions of dollars bringing to market a successful drug, pharmaceutical companies would not invest such large sums without the protection of patents…
Re: Reforming the Patent System Toward a Minimalist System
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
We'd probably have better and cheaper drugs without the patent system. If more companies can make and sell the same drug, more companies can also fund research. Patents should be categorically banned.
This is borne out of a massive incorrect assessment of the pharmaceutical industry. It takes a tremendous amount of money to bring a drug to market, billions. More if you count all of the drugs that are tried but fail to meet expectations (of efficacy or safety). If you don't allow drug makers a window of time in which to make back their R&D costs through high profit margins then you simply will not see as many new d…
Re: Reforming the Patent System Toward a Minimalist System
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a rather one sided view of the problem. Just because patents presently allow the pharmaceutical industry to fund R&D costs (estimates of which might be inflated[1]) does not mean they are the only way. If the cost of patents outweigh this one benefit, we should get rid of them. First, not all research is done by the pharmaceutical industry. In the US, they account for about 36% of research spending[2], behind…
Sure, there might be many ways to fix the problem, but just getting rid of pharmaceutical patents and doing nothing else is unlikely to help. Also, be careful about misusing the statistic of "drug companies spending more on marketing". A huge part of "marketing" is giving away free samples, which are often used by doctors to help reduce the cost of drugs for low income patients.
Regarding free samples, it's a good point that I overlooked. According to reference [3] above, free samples account for 28% of marketing expenditures. The remaining 72% still represent 18% of revenues spent on pure marketing. So even if all free samples were used by doctors to help the poorer patients, there is arguably more money spent on marketing than R&D.
Re: Reforming the Patent System Toward a Minimalist System
#37Patents bring the following trade-off: inventor monopoly defendence vs. block of progress\future use cases utilizing patent. So patents both are enforcing and slowing innovation. This could be fixed with with the following solution that will maximize public good. There're no good reason for 20 years patent periods in some industries with short cycle of product development, like software, mobile, cloud etc. Cleraly, a…
I think software needs a new kind of protection, that issues faster, makes it easier for other people to search, and expires sooner.
Re: Reforming the Patent System Toward a Minimalist System
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
no. the upfront costs for pharma development are prohibitive. the chances of a new molecule making it through clinical trials is really small. the economic crisis has put a lot of emphasis on efficacy for inclusion on various formulary schemes, be it private ones like in the US or state-run ones like in EU. now you need an approved product that is also not only marginally better than existing stuff. just takes away s…
We have problem A, which is alleviated by crutch B. Therefore, do not remove the crutch. No. If there is a problem with the FDA approval system, let's fix that. Unless it's even more hopeless than reforming (or abolishing) the patent system? > the whole patent system was invented for a reason. Yes, but it doesn't matter in the slightest. What matters is what the patent system actually does, and the consequences of re…
If we do not want babies born with flippers in this country, then we need expensive approval tests. (Those who don't get the reference should look up thalidomide - which the FDA kept out of the USA.) Those currently cost an average of something like $150 million per drug. The temporary monopoly provided by patents lets us get those costs recouped.
That said I don't think that pharmaceuticals are the poster child for patents. And in a comment on the blog I offered the example of using hookworm to treat Crohn's disease. The FDA has ruled that it would require their approval. But no patent is possible, and therefore nobody is trying to get it approved. And the result is that the most promising known treatment for hundreds of thousands of sufferers of Crohn's disease is, and will remain, illegal to even consider offering in the USA.
Re: Reforming the Patent System Toward a Minimalist System
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
no. the upfront costs for pharma development are prohibitive. the chances of a new molecule making it through clinical trials is really small. the economic crisis has put a lot of emphasis on efficacy for inclusion on various formulary schemes, be it private ones like in the US or state-run ones like in EU. now you need an approved product that is also not only marginally better than existing stuff. just takes away s…
We have problem A, which is alleviated by crutch B. Therefore, do not remove the crutch. No. If there is a problem with the FDA approval system, let's fix that. Unless it's even more hopeless than reforming (or abolishing) the patent system? > the whole patent system was invented for a reason. Yes, but it doesn't matter in the slightest. What matters is what the patent system actually does, and the consequences of re…
It's not a crutch. It's "we have textbook market failure A, which is alleviated by textbook government intervention B; we can remove the intervention, but we have to substitute one of the other textbook interventions suitable for addressing market failures."
> If there is a problem with the FDA approval system, let's fix that.
First, the FDA approval system is a major but not the biggest cost in getting a new drug to market. Making it dramatically cheaper wouldn't eliminate the underlying problem.
Second, the FDA process is thorough and therefore expensive for good reason. The drug market is problematic because its exceedingly difficult to trace a condition to a particular drug, and because conditions sometimes show up years after treatment with a particular drug.
And the cost of letting a bad drug through is astronomical. A popular drug like Vioxx might be used by 50 million people worldwide. David Graham, and FDA scientist, estimated that Vioxx caused 90-140k preventable heart attacks, and estimated 25-55k preventable deaths from those heart attacks. What's the cost of this damage? How much would you have to be paid to have a heart attack? Remember the target demographic of Vioxx, middle aged men with decent jobs that provide health insurance to be able to afford an expensive medication, is one of the most expensive demographics in terms of lost income from premature death. Between premature deaths and heart attacks, the actual cost of the Vioxx mistake could be $50-$100 billion in the US. Merck had spectacular lawyers and ended up settling for a fraction of that, but that's the nature of class-action settlements--the tortfeasor only ever pays pennies on each dollar of damage their products cause. The public bears the rest of those costs.
Re: Reforming the Patent System Toward a Minimalist System
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
We have problem A, which is alleviated by crutch B. Therefore, do not remove the crutch. No. If there is a problem with the FDA approval system, let's fix that. Unless it's even more hopeless than reforming (or abolishing) the patent system? > the whole patent system was invented for a reason. Yes, but it doesn't matter in the slightest. What matters is what the patent system actually does, and the consequences of re…
> We have problem A, which is alleviated by crutch B. It's not a crutch. It's "we have textbook market failure A, which is alleviated by textbook government intervention B; we can remove the intervention, but we have to substitute one of the other textbook interventions suitable for addressing market failures." > If there is a problem with the FDA approval system, let's fix that. First, the FDA approval system is a m…
Oops. Of course. Thinking of patents as a form of government intervention enlarge the solution space. I was seeing a dichotomy (or spectrum) patent/no-patents, but I did not think about exploring other dimensions.
> First, the FDA approval system is a major but not the biggest cost in getting a new drug to market.
What are the biggest costs? Knowing that could determine the best course of action.