301–310 of 362 posts
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> (Though I've written repeatedly about my preferred alternative to XSLT) Link to example?
I've previously suggested the XML stylesheet tag should allow which would then allow the script to use the service-worker APIs to intercept and transform the request.
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RSS hasn't gone anywhere. Every podcast my podcast player downloads is announced to it either via RSS or Atom feeds. It has just fallen by the wayside as the way people become aware of updates to websites with serial publication of content (in general: because most people get that information from peer-to-peer link sharing, like Facebook, Twitter, Mastodon, Fark, Reddit, Slashdot, or even this website). They're not e…
Yes while their chosen formats directly aligned with their business get first class citizenship and suffer many larger and well known security issues. Xml will be next just wait.
... Actually, that seems like a fine idea...
I have yet to read an article complaining about XSLT deprecation from someone who can explain why they actually used it and why it’s important to them. > I will keep using XSLT, and in fact will look for new opportunities to rely on it. This is the closest I’ve seen, but it’s not an explanation of why it was important before the deprecation. It’s a declaration that they’re using it as an act of rebellion.
My guess is that a lot of the controversy is simply because this is one of the first times that a major web feature has been removed from the web standards. For the past 20+ years, people have grown to expect that any page they make will remain viewable indefinitely. It doesn't matter that most people don't like XSLT, or that barely any sites use it. Removing XSLT does break some websites and that violates their expe…
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I would just do this on the server side. You can even do it statically when generating the XML. In fact until all the stuff about XSLT in browsers appeared recently, I didn't even know that browsers could do it.
Converting the contents of an Atom feed into (X)HTML means it's no longer a valid Atom feed. The same is true for many other document formats, such as flattened ODF.
I don't disagree that Google is killing the open web. But XSLT is a pretty weak argument for showing that. It is an extremely complicated feature that is very seldom used. I am very doubtful dropping support is some evil political decision. It is much more likely they just don't want to sink resources into maintaining something that is almost never used. For the specific use case of showing RSS and Atom feeds in the…
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> Furthermore, you can’t polyfill USB support. You can't polyfill many things. Should we just dump everything into the browser? Well, Google certainly thinks so. But that makes the question about "but this feature is unused, why support it" moot. And Google has no intention to support a polyfill, or ship it with the browser. The same person who didn't even know that XSLT is used on podcast sites scribbled together so…
The distinction in my mind is that if a browser doesn’t ship with XSLT, then devs have to go through the hassle of adding support for it themselves, but if a browser doesn’t support a device driver, it’s completely impossible for devs to do that themselves. Without built-in support, XSLT is inconvenient. Without built-in support, things like WebUSB cannot possibly exist. That’s why I think they can’t be compared dire…
Someone should tell the 25+ year old USB devices I use that their drivers are actually impossible.
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> but deprecating XSLT is a rare opportunity to shrink the surface area of the web’s “API” without upsetting too many people There's a lot of back and forth on every discussion about XSLT removal. I don't know if I would categorize that as 'without upsetting too many people'
We are largely the nerds that other nerds picked on for being too nerdy. I’d bet that a hugely disproportionate share of all the people in the world who care about this subject at all are here in these conversations.
Passionate nerds giving a shit can build a far more rosy world than whatever that represents, so I don’t see why anyone should give a damn if this happens to be somewhat niche.
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The distinction in my mind is that if a browser doesn’t ship with XSLT, then devs have to go through the hassle of adding support for it themselves, but if a browser doesn’t support a device driver, it’s completely impossible for devs to do that themselves. Without built-in support, XSLT is inconvenient. Without built-in support, things like WebUSB cannot possibly exist. That’s why I think they can’t be compared dire…
What? If the browser doesn’t support directly accessing USB hardware, it’s impossible to write a driver for it? Someone should tell the 25+ year old USB devices I use that their drivers are actually impossible.
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It's literal W3C policy: https://www.w3.org/TR/html-design-principles/#priority-of-co... --- start quote --- In case of conflict, consider users over authors over implementors over specifiers over theoretical purity. In other words costs or difficulties to the user should be given more weight than costs to authors; which in turn should be given more weight than costs to implementors; which should be given more weight…
I put this in a parallel thread, but maybe this is a linguistic gap between "servant", a person who does what they are told and has very limited agency within the bounds of their instructions, and "service", where you do things for the benefit of another entity. None of the above reads like a "servant-oriented mindset". It reads like "this is the framework by which we decide what's valuable". And by that framework, t…
Moreover, Google docs says that even even 0.0001% shouldn't be taken lightly.
As I keep saying, the person who's pushing for XSLT removal didn't even know about XSLT uses until after he posted "intent to remove", and the PR to remove to Chrome. And the usage stats he used have been questioned: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45958966
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> not at all approachable for someone who just wants to make a web page If someone wants to make a web page they need to learn HTML and CSS. Why would adding a fragile and little-used technology like XSLT help?
> Why would adding a fragile and little-used technology like XSLT help? A few years ago I bought a bunch of Skylanders for practically nothing when the toys to life fad faded away. To keep track of everything I made a quick and dirty XSLT script that sorted and organized the list of figures and formatted each one based on their 'element'. That would have been murderous to do in plain HTML and CSS: https://wyrm.org/in…