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My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

sashachapin.substack.com

101–110 of 444 posts

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#101
The irony of this piece being enjoyable to read and feeling very relatable isn't lost upon me :)

It's fascinating to think about how much goes on inside each person's mind!

One thing this article reminded me of is a conversation I had with an old roommate of mine. I always considered her an absolute sorceress when it came to dealing with people.

Anyway, I forget how her and I got onto the conversation, but she asked me, "Before you say something to someone - do you ever play out the conversation in your mind?" and, of course, I said, "Yeah. I'll practice what I'm going to say and think a bit about how it'll land." and she countered with, "Do you ever take it one step further? By responding to yourself as if you were the person you're speaking to and then formulating your response to their anticipated response?" And my answer was an emphatic, "Fuck no. Are you crazy? Do you do that in real-time mid-conversation??"

Of course, my roommate's approach wasn't something she used all the time, but the entire notion was foreign to me because the number of branching outcomes seemed large enough as to not be valuable to explore. I'm not psychic - why bother trying to formulate a response to a response not yet verbalized? And yet, if it were low enough effort and I had good enough confidence in the outcome, I could completely see the value in anticipating responses and trying to approximate the ideal N+1 response. It shocked me that someone I considered naturally talented in this space had also become comfortable taking on a mental exercise that I'd entirely written off as too effortful.

FWIW, I still don't follow her approach and am reasonably happy with my conversational skills, but the revelation really made me take a step back and consider how much potential depth there is in areas I considered shallow.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#102

This post wasn't what I was expecting from the "socially normal" title. While there is a lot of self-reflection and growth in this piece, a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Look at the first two subheadings: > 1: Connecting with people is about being a dazzling person > 2: Connecting with people is about playing their game The post felt like a rollercoa…

> a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. A lot of stuff "normal" people do is charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Except because they are not conscious about it, we give them a pass. One of the characteristics of autistic-spectrum individuals is that they must make a conscious effort to achieve goals that are achieved unconsciously by most of u…

Agreed. It's the playbook of social interaction written out. Nothing offensive about that.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#103
post #84

This post wasn't what I was expecting from the "socially normal" title. While there is a lot of self-reflection and growth in this piece, a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Look at the first two subheadings: > 1: Connecting with people is about being a dazzling person > 2: Connecting with people is about playing their game The post felt like a rollercoa…

> The post felt like a rollercoaster between using tricks to charm and manipulate, and periods of genuinely trying to learn how to be friends with people. That’s all the same thing. What is being friends with people other than essentially manipulating them into liking you by being likable and a good friend? What’s important is why you’re doing it.

I think big distinction is “doing it on purpose, in a thought out manner” vs “just being who you are and people falling into friendship with you”.

Doing it on purpose - even if you don’t have bad intentions - still feels selfish, you make them like you for your own benefit first and foremost as you want them to be your friends.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#104
post #52

> The other day, someone told me, “I can’t imagine you ever being awkward with people.” I was telling my therapist of several years recently about being uncomfortable with the number of new people I've had to meet recently. He seemed surprised that I wasn't excited by it all and said something along the lines of "You seem like a very social person, that seems out of character." It struck me… am I really that good at…

> Working from home since COVID has made my social skills so much worse because I don't get the practice.

Opposite for me.. I apply my social efforts to a smaller subset of work demands on my time and social interface, and so I have more energy for gregariousness after work, on my terms, etc.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that book because it was on so many generic book recommendations lists. It was less sleazy than I expected from the title. It actually had a lot of points about being genuine, being a good listener, showing respect to other people's opinions, admitting when you're wrong, being sincere, and so on. Decent advice, really. A side benefit of reading it is you learn how to spot when other people are insincerely tryi…

I read that book and I think it's terrible. Though the "God has not seen fit to distribute evenly the gift of intelligence" was funny and I can relate... but otherwise, I wouldn't want to live in a society where people are secretly hating you but "speaking ill of no man" a.k.a. "not criticizing." I liked the book Winning by Jack Welch more, which advocates for "candor," and is essentially the opposite of How to Win F…

> I liked the book Winning by Jack Welch more

Jack Welch the sociopath?? Or is there another author with that same name?

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#106

This post wasn't what I was expecting from the "socially normal" title. While there is a lot of self-reflection and growth in this piece, a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Look at the first two subheadings: > 1: Connecting with people is about being a dazzling person > 2: Connecting with people is about playing their game The post felt like a rollercoa…

Through all their gyrations there is still something inherently contrived and performative to their interpersonal relationships that are far afield from normal, but pass well enough to permit connection. This line really resonated with me: > I was going around dangling the possibility of emotional connection indiscriminately, ignoring the fact that it’s entirely reasonable to interpret this as flirtation. I am still…

> I am still struggling to understand the way in which many people naturally form casual connections with others. [...] I perceive a lot of confusion here - and in my own life - about personal wants and needs being met, meeting someone else’s needs, where one’s personal boundaries lie, and how we effectively communicate them - or not.

I think this is a really interesting question. Speaking just from my perspective and experience, casual connections can form naturally from the basis of having no specific intention to connect. You simply give your attention to the other person without any preconceived needs or wants. Maybe the interaction is brief and superficial, maybe it goes somewhere deeper, who knows. But either way you get to experience the real, rubber-hits-the-road connection of being present with the other.

An important understanding is that it's possible to genuinely connect without being entangled in any way.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that book because it was on so many generic book recommendations lists. It was less sleazy than I expected from the title. It actually had a lot of points about being genuine, being a good listener, showing respect to other people's opinions, admitting when you're wrong, being sincere, and so on. Decent advice, really. A side benefit of reading it is you learn how to spot when other people are insincerely tryi…

I read that book and I think it's terrible. Though the "God has not seen fit to distribute evenly the gift of intelligence" was funny and I can relate... but otherwise, I wouldn't want to live in a society where people are secretly hating you but "speaking ill of no man" a.k.a. "not criticizing." I liked the book Winning by Jack Welch more, which advocates for "candor," and is essentially the opposite of How to Win F…

The sociopath who destroyed GE in the quest for more money is someone I would only take social advice from if I was done with humanity and had started to use society for entirely selfish ends.

He got away with “candor” because he was at the top and anyone who disagreed with him was removed.

Honestly any self help books from people in unique positions in society trying to tell the common man how to improve always read to me as “my top 10 tips for winning the lottery: tip one buy a winning lottery ticket”

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that book because it was on so many generic book recommendations lists. It was less sleazy than I expected from the title. It actually had a lot of points about being genuine, being a good listener, showing respect to other people's opinions, admitting when you're wrong, being sincere, and so on. Decent advice, really. A side benefit of reading it is you learn how to spot when other people are insincerely tryi…

I read that book and I think it's terrible. Though the "God has not seen fit to distribute evenly the gift of intelligence" was funny and I can relate... but otherwise, I wouldn't want to live in a society where people are secretly hating you but "speaking ill of no man" a.k.a. "not criticizing." I liked the book Winning by Jack Welch more, which advocates for "candor," and is essentially the opposite of How to Win F…

Not criticizing is not for hiding fact you hate someone.

Not criticizing is about - you see someone slipping don’t call them stupid just move on.

Like if someone makes a typo in comment here on HN, no one writes how stupid they are because they might be on the phone having autocorrect breaking their typing. You don’t really show off how smart you are pointing out small mistakes.

Hating someone requires that they somehow wronged you. There was nothing in the book about being nice for someone who is swearing at you or punched you in the face.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#110
post #52

> The other day, someone told me, “I can’t imagine you ever being awkward with people.” I was telling my therapist of several years recently about being uncomfortable with the number of new people I've had to meet recently. He seemed surprised that I wasn't excited by it all and said something along the lines of "You seem like a very social person, that seems out of character." It struck me… am I really that good at…

It is like that to me. I believe that I've just learned the proper motions for some interactions, and I can look to be very social person proficient in communications. It is easy for me, no problem. Till I hit some situation where I need to think fast, trying to figure out what is expected of me now.

> I am absolutely terrified in near all social situations

It is different for me, I'm absolutely confident in near all social situations, but there is a catch, I actively avoid social situations which make me terrified, and I'm pretty good at it.

> I have zero idea how to make small talk with people I haven't known for years.

I have never bothered to get the idea of a small talk. I hate it from my teens, I hate to dig in my mind for something I can say when there is nothing to say. Or to voice opinions about things I don't care (and "i don't care about your TV-series, I never watch them" doesn't count as a socially acceptable opinion). So I just avoid such situations overall. Generally if you avoid talking with people tet-a-tete you don't need to talk small. You can just look like you are listening, why calculating ways to leave the place without offending anyone.

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