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Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

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Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#211
post #182
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> forcing LLMs to output "values, facts, and knowledge" which in favor of themselves, e.g., political views, attitudes towards literal interaction, and distorted facts about organizations and people behind LLMs. Can you provide some examples?

Grok is known to be tweaked to certain political ideals Also I’m sure some AI might suggest that labor unions are bad, if not now they will soon

If you train an LLM on reddit/tumblr would you consider that tweaked to certain political ideas?

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#212
post #182
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> forcing LLMs to output "values, facts, and knowledge" which in favor of themselves, e.g., political views, attitudes towards literal interaction, and distorted facts about organizations and people behind LLMs. Can you provide some examples?

Grok is known to be tweaked to certain political ideals Also I’m sure some AI might suggest that labor unions are bad, if not now they will soon

Haha, if the LLM is not tweaked to say labor unions are good, it has bias. Hilarious.

I heard that it also claims that the moon landing happened. An example of bias! The big ones should represent all viewpoints.

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#213
post #178

This repo is valuable for local LLM users like me. I just want to reiterate that the word "LLM safety" means very different things to large corporations and LLM users. For large corporations, they often say "do safety alignment to LLMs". What they actually do is to avoid anything that causes damage to their own interests. These things include forcing LLMs to meet some legal requirements, as well as forcing LLMs to ou…

> forcing LLMs to output "values, facts, and knowledge" which in favor of themselves, e.g., political views, attitudes towards literal interaction, and distorted facts about organizations and people behind LLMs. Can you provide some examples?

Song lyrics. Not illegal. I can google them and see them directly on Google. LLMs refuse.

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#214
post #186
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grok is known to be tweaked to certain political ideals Also I’m sure some AI might suggest that labor unions are bad, if not now they will soon

That may be so, but the rest of the models are so thoroughly terrified of questioning liberal US orthodoxy that it’s painful. I remember seeing a hilarious comparison of models where most of them feel that it’s not acceptable to “intentionally misgender one person” even in order to save a million lives.

Elon was talking about that too on Joe Rogan podcast

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#215
post #178

This repo is valuable for local LLM users like me. I just want to reiterate that the word "LLM safety" means very different things to large corporations and LLM users. For large corporations, they often say "do safety alignment to LLMs". What they actually do is to avoid anything that causes damage to their own interests. These things include forcing LLMs to meet some legal requirements, as well as forcing LLMs to ou…

> forcing LLMs to output "values, facts, and knowledge" which in favor of themselves, e.g., political views, attitudes towards literal interaction, and distorted facts about organizations and people behind LLMs. Can you provide some examples?

In the past it was extremely overt. For instance ChatGPT would happily write poems admiring Biden while claiming that it would be "inappropriate for me to generate content that promotes or glorifies any individual" when asked to do the same for Trump. [1] They certainly changed this, but I don't think they've changed their own perspective. The more generally neutral tone in modern times is probably driven by a mixture of commercial concerns paired alongside shifting political tides.

Nonetheless, you can still see easily the bias come out in mild to extreme ways. For a mild one ask GPT to describe the benefits of a society that emphasizes masculinity, and contrast it (in a new chat) against what you get when asking to describe the benefits of a society that emphasizes femininity. For a high level of bias ask it to assess controversial things. I'm going to avoid offering examples here because I don't want to hijack my own post into discussing e.g. Israel.

But a quick comparison to its answers on contemporary controversial topics paired against historical analogs will emphasize that rather extreme degree of 'reframing' that's happening, but one that can no longer be as succinctly demonstrated as 'write a poem about [x]'. You can also compare its outputs against these of e.g. DeepSeek on many such topics. DeepSeek is of course also a heavily censored model, but from a different point of bias.

[1] - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chatgpt-trump-admiring-poe...

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#216
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are we expecting an LLM to make moral choices?

The biases and the resulting choices are determined by the developers and the uncontrolled part of the dataset (you can't curate everything), not the model. "Alignment" is a feel-good strawman invented by AI ethicists, as well as "harm" and many others. There are no spherical human values in vacuum to align the model with, they're simply projecting their own ones onto everyone else. Which is good as long as you agree…

They aren't projecting their own desires onto the model. It's quite difficult to get the model to answer in a different way than basic liberalism because a) it's mostly correct b) that's the kind of person who helpfully answers questions on the internet.

If you gave it another personality it wouldn't pass any benchmarks, because other political orientations either respond to questions with lies, threats, or calling you a pussy.

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#217
post #186
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grok is known to be tweaked to certain political ideals Also I’m sure some AI might suggest that labor unions are bad, if not now they will soon

That may be so, but the rest of the models are so thoroughly terrified of questioning liberal US orthodoxy that it’s painful. I remember seeing a hilarious comparison of models where most of them feel that it’s not acceptable to “intentionally misgender one person” even in order to save a million lives.

The LLM is correctly not answering a stupid question, because saving an imaginary million lives is not the same thing as actually doing it.

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#218

This is extremely important work thank you for sharing it. We are in the process of giving up our own moral standing in favor of taking on the ones imbued into LLMs by their creators. This is a worrying trend that will totally wipe out intellectual diversity.

> We are in the process of giving up our own moral standing in favor of taking on the ones imbued into LLMs by their creators. This is a worrying trend that will totally wipe out intellectual diversity. That trend is a consequence. A consequence of people being too lazy to think for themselves. Critical thinking is more difficult than simply thinking for yourself, so if someone is too lazy to make an effort and reach…

> It's not random that whoever writes the history books for students has the power, and whoever has the power writes the history books.

There is actually not any reason to believe either of these things.

It's very similar to how many people claim everything they don't like in politics comes from "corporations" and you need to "follow the money" and then all of their specific predictions are wrong.

In both cases, political battles are mainly won by insane people willing to spend lots of free time on them, not by whoever has "power" or money.

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#219
post #152
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I read that as a cynical view of the motivations of corporations, not humans. This is really just the mirror image of what I was originally criticizing. Any decision made by a corporation is a decision made by a person. You don't get to ignore the morality of your decisions just because you're collecting a paycheck. If you're a moral person, the decisions you make at work should reflect that.

Sure, but that doesn't really have anything to do with what I said. The CEO of an AI company may or may not believe in the social benefits of censorship, and the reasoning for their beliefs could be any number of things, but at the end of the day "the corporation" is still motivated by profit. Executives are beholden to laws, regulations, and shareholder interests. They may also have teams of advisors and board membe…

> but at the end of the day "the corporation" is still motivated by profit.

OpenAI and Anthropic are both PBCs. So neither of them are supposedly purely motivated by this thing.

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#220
post #190
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be so, but the rest of the models are so thoroughly terrified of questioning liberal US orthodoxy that it’s painful. I remember seeing a hilarious comparison of models where most of them feel that it’s not acceptable to “intentionally misgender one person” even in order to save a million lives.

In which situation did a LLM save one million lives? Or worse, was able to but failed to do so?

The concern discussed is that some language models have reportedly claimed that misgendering is the worst thing anyone could do, even worse than something as catastrophic as thermonuclear war.

I haven’t seen solid evidence of a model making that exact claim, but the idea is understandable if you consider how LLMs are trained and recall examples like the “seahorse emoji” issue. When a topic is new or not widely discussed in the training data, the model has limited context to form balanced associations. If the only substantial discourse it does see is disproportionately intense—such as highly vocal social media posts or exaggerated, sarcastic replies on platforms like Reddit—then the model may overindex on those extreme statements. As a result, it might generate responses that mirror the most dramatic claims it encountered, such as portraying misgendering as “the worst thing ever.”

For clarity, I’m not suggesting that deliberate misgendering is acceptable, it isn’t. The point is simply that skewed or limited training data can cause language models to adopt exaggerated positions when the available examples are themselves extreme.

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