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What Did Medieval Peasants Know? (2022)

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Re: What Did Medieval Peasants Know? (2022)

#31

Post by vintermann »

phist_mcgee wrote: post #15
daxfohl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah if anything I'd say people imagine things to be worse than they were. At least in the American education system, there's Rome, then 1000 years of plagues and misery, then the Renaissance. I was shocked the first time I went to a preserved middle ages village in Europe, and it was a moment of realization that the middle ages weren't just dead people carted around on wheelbarrows.

Although a westerner transplated back 1000 years would be utterly shocked by the level of disease, childhood death, and complete lack of modern medical care or basic germ theory.

No, I don't think they would, because we already know that. I think they'd be more surprised at what hygiene there was, e.g. the extensive bathing customs.

Re: What Did Medieval Peasants Know? (2022)

#32

Post by adastra22 »

somenameforme wrote: post #24
jcranmer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devereaux wrote that series in large part in response to all the people going "gosh, modern life is just so much worse than medieval peasants!" But honestly, even if you're comparing to the richest kings of the time, your median modern person has a better life. People seriously underestimate just how much of our modern life would be unattainable luxury in the Medieval period.

> even if you're comparing to the richest kings of the time, your median modern person has a better life And the question I always ask when people make this claim - now would you rather be a median modern person or one of the richest kings of the medieval era? It emphasizes that there's far more unquantifiables to having a good life than there are quantifiables, yet we almost entirely socially neglect them.

A median modern person, no question. What’s the argument that you are implying but not stating?

Re: What Did Medieval Peasants Know? (2022)

#33

Post by adastra22 »

sandspar wrote: post #30

Apropos, from a book I read long ago and have forgotten, except for this passage: "Prior to the twentieth century, when life spans were shorter, a shepherd might have known hundreds of songs, poems, and stories and several languages, how to play several musical instruments, tan leather, make butter, dry and preserve meat, build a shelter, and prepare the dead for burial." There is so much potential in all of us!

That doesn’t seem like a lot though when you really dig into it and understand the context.

Re: What Did Medieval Peasants Know? (2022)

#34

Post by zkmon »

>> There wasn’t any running water or electricity

Why middle ages? Most people born in villages of many countries during 50's or 60's would not have seen electricity, running water, toilets, roads, radios, candy, plastic toys, shoes etc until decades later.

Just like how the writings from ancient times were mostly about royal and religious figures, historians of modern times mostly looked at the history of the western world, Europe specifically.

By projecting what I saw in the remote parts of India in the 70's, I can say the following about peasants of old times:

* they didn't care about recording their lives or their appearances in any form except as folklores that were passed on through generations. The lores were sung by a special class of society telling children of higher classes, about their ancestors.

* they didn't care about having distinct names for family members

* they didn't like being portrayed (as in photographed)

* they didn't like outsiders

* they don't record their birthdays

* they didn't try to avoid risk and demography stayed young, with about 10 children per woman.

* if there is any pandemic or famine, they deserted villages and moved to new places

* there is no money involved in transactions. Grain, jewels, land, water, bride and livestock were the stores of value

Re: What Did Medieval Peasants Know? (2022)

#35

Post by _yy01 »

kamaal wrote: post #11
jameslk wrote: post #6

> Our ancestors of the distant past can be invoked in conversations about nearly anything: They supposedly worked less, relaxed more, slept better, had better sex, and enjoyed better diets, among other things. That’s just an artifact of modern life. Pool enough money between family and friends and you can buy yourself a cheap plot of land in the middle of nowhere and wild out on your own agrarian commune

This keeps coming up in the context of India as well. The Urban centers are so people dense you yearn to escape this life and live somewhere you can enjoy Mountain perspectives, lakes and tall trees. But here is the catch, I go motorcycling often. While you do feel nice riding out in the Sun, see stunning things. You begin to realise why it might not work. There are no schools, hospitals, shopping centers or everythi…

> I do have relatives who live in far villages and have not travelled and seen the world(In fact not travelled more than 100 km radius from place of birth)

This was literally where I grew up before I got education and become software engineer.

Its not a good thing and we should not glorify it.

Villagers in India are malnourished, the education is not upto par with cities, and the life is stagnant there. There's no opportunity to carve out your own niche or achieve glory in life.

oTOH, The metropolitons like Bengaluru or Delhi are highly populated and make life difficult unless you live inside a posh gated society. The competition there to get highest TC job and grind till you break down just to own a house is also not healthy. Not to even mention pollution and health hazards.

We should focus on developing tier-2 and tier-3 cities. They can be developed on par with western cities in cleanliness and infrastructure as long as we can keep the population density low.

Re: What Did Medieval Peasants Know? (2022)

#36

Post by vintermann »

hbarka wrote: post #23

>> The internet has become strangely nostalgic for life in the Middle Ages. There’s a flood of AI-generated slop around this nostalgic content and many of them are generated as documentaries but with ridiculous claims, fictitious characters, and timelines that never happened. It’s the enshittification of YouTube and the new rickroll.

That's true of anything that's been identified by the ensloppifiers as a trend. It doesn't necessarily mean anyone is pushing these narratives for political reasons (although I'm sure that happens too).

Re: What Did Medieval Peasants Know? (2022)

#37

Post by bigmattystyles »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #27
davidw wrote: post #3

Not much, but they do have "a cunning plan".

Edmund Blackadder was never a peasant in any incarnation of the show, and only the first series took place in what was arguably the medieval period anyway.

That was Baldrick's line though - he was definitely lower class.

Re: What Did Medieval Peasants Know? (2022)

#38

Post by verisimi »

zkmon wrote: post #34

>> There wasn’t any running water or electricity Why middle ages? Most people born in villages of many countries during 50's or 60's would not have seen electricity, running water, toilets, roads, radios, candy, plastic toys, shoes etc until decades later. Just like how the writings from ancient times were mostly about royal and religious figures, historians of modern times mostly looked at the history of the western…

But were they happy without the internet and online banking apps?

Re: What Did Medieval Peasants Know? (2022)

#39

Post by weregiraffe »

vintermann wrote: post #31
phist_mcgee wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although a westerner transplated back 1000 years would be utterly shocked by the level of disease, childhood death, and complete lack of modern medical care or basic germ theory.

No, I don't think they would, because we already know that. I think they'd be more surprised at what hygiene there was, e.g. the extensive bathing customs.

You can know something and still be shocked when you encounter it in real life.

Re: What Did Medieval Peasants Know? (2022)

#40

Post by phantasmish »

adastra22 wrote: post #32
somenameforme wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even if you're comparing to the richest kings of the time, your median modern person has a better life And the question I always ask when people make this claim - now would you rather be a median modern person or one of the richest kings of the medieval era? It emphasizes that there's far more unquantifiables to having a good life than there are quantifiables, yet we almost entirely socially neglect them.

A median modern person, no question. What’s the argument that you are implying but not stating?

I dunno… median OECD state modern person, or median modern person globally?

I might go with being one of the richer medieval kings, in the latter case. Global median is pretty bad.

Only things that might sway me otherwise are antibiotics and if we’re factoring in the whole “sword of Damocles” aspect for despotic rulers.

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