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Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

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Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#81

Post by mjmahone17 »

tptacek wrote: post #67
stego-tech wrote: post #22

I feel kinda bad for the writer, because it's a good question: no, curing patients is not a good business model, just like public transit is not a good business model. What a lot of folks neglect are N+1-order effects, because those are harder to quantify and fail to reach the predetermined decision some executive or board or shareholder has already made. Is curing patients a bad business model? Sure, for the biotech…

Saying that curing diseases is a bad business model is like saying discovering the world's largest gold mine would be a bad business because you'd eventually run out of gold. The underlying argument doesn't make sense.

This was kind of true for Spain: they imported so much silver that they had inflation causing massive economic destabilization.

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#82

Post by Ferret7446 »

socalgal2 wrote: post #74
stego-tech wrote: post #22

I feel kinda bad for the writer, because it's a good question: no, curing patients is not a good business model, just like public transit is not a good business model. What a lot of folks neglect are N+1-order effects, because those are harder to quantify and fail to reach the predetermined decision some executive or board or shareholder has already made. Is curing patients a bad business model? Sure, for the biotech…

> ~public~ transit is not a good business model. ~public~ transit can be a good business model if it's setup correctly. The majority of Japan's 100 train companies are setup such that they own both trains and complementary interests. Office buildings, shopping centers, super markets, apartments. The better their trains are the better their other businesses do by delivering people to them. The better their other busin…

While public transit is a good business model, corrupt public transit is an even better business model. The amount of public funds that some US public transit funnels away is astounding.

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#83

Post by PunchyHamster »

ggm wrote: post #40
Buford_Jones wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Thats simply not true. To argue to an absurd reduction, if that were true the NHS would preference amputation and wooden limbs over all other treatments for infected limbs. They still preference paths short of amputation. It's a race to a medium. the problem is the medium is lower than rich people want, and the masses of poorer people who benefit from being lifted above amputation and a wooden leg don't appear in the…

The most important part of public healthcare is keeping that base level of treatment so any private medical healthcare needs to be at least this mediocre to be worth it.

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#84

Post by 0xWTF »

Depends on the market. Everyone dies eventually. Every near-fatal illness you suffer is a windfall for the medical system and ensures another windfall later.

For all other businesses, it's a little more complicated. If the patient/employee's knowledge, connections, etc, are valuable enough, then keeping them alive and mentating appropriately is inherently good for the business. The question then is "How do you measure 'enough'?"

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#85

Post by ehnto »

socalgal2 wrote: post #74
stego-tech wrote: post #22

I feel kinda bad for the writer, because it's a good question: no, curing patients is not a good business model, just like public transit is not a good business model. What a lot of folks neglect are N+1-order effects, because those are harder to quantify and fail to reach the predetermined decision some executive or board or shareholder has already made. Is curing patients a bad business model? Sure, for the biotech…

> ~public~ transit is not a good business model. ~public~ transit can be a good business model if it's setup correctly. The majority of Japan's 100 train companies are setup such that they own both trains and complementary interests. Office buildings, shopping centers, super markets, apartments. The better their trains are the better their other businesses do by delivering people to them. The better their other busin…

It's fair to note that Japan's private rail networks have often been joint public/private investments, but I don't think that negates your point.

I think public transit is something the public should invest in, profitable or not, as a service to ourselves (the public). But it can also be done profitably in certain circumstances.

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#86

Post by tptacek »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #80
tptacek wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that curing diseases is a bad business model is like saying discovering the world's largest gold mine would be a bad business because you'd eventually run out of gold. The underlying argument doesn't make sense.

It does make sense if you turn it around "Having permanent patient by treating only symptoms is better than curing them right away" Basically living (comfortably, or at all) as a subscription service

No, this is the basic naive argument I'm responding to. It's nice to have long-term recurring revenue, but customers have a very strong preference for a cure, which means the owners of cures will outcompete the owners of subscription treatments. And then to say those cure-owners are in a "bad business", again, is like saying you'd go "aw shucks" if you happened on an enormous seam of gold.

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#87

Post by brianwawok »

stego-tech wrote: post #22

I feel kinda bad for the writer, because it's a good question: no, curing patients is not a good business model, just like public transit is not a good business model. What a lot of folks neglect are N+1-order effects, because those are harder to quantify and fail to reach the predetermined decision some executive or board or shareholder has already made. Is curing patients a bad business model? Sure, for the biotech…

With that logic curing someone of a deadly disease at 10 is good for society because they have much to contribute, but curing someone at 80 is bad for society because their best contributions are behind - and they are a net resource drain. That’s not a good path to head down. (Cure a doctor he generates value, don’t cure a prisoner he drains value).

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#90

Post by CGMthrowaway »

socalgal2 wrote: post #74
stego-tech wrote: post #22

I feel kinda bad for the writer, because it's a good question: no, curing patients is not a good business model, just like public transit is not a good business model. What a lot of folks neglect are N+1-order effects, because those are harder to quantify and fail to reach the predetermined decision some executive or board or shareholder has already made. Is curing patients a bad business model? Sure, for the biotech…

> ~public~ transit is not a good business model. ~public~ transit can be a good business model if it's setup correctly. The majority of Japan's 100 train companies are setup such that they own both trains and complementary interests. Office buildings, shopping centers, super markets, apartments. The better their trains are the better their other businesses do by delivering people to them. The better their other busin…

This reminds me of the way ski resorts work in the US. One company builds the ski resort (losing) but also develops all the real estate around it (winning). It only works if it's a resort worth living near.

Or casinos, which are the reverse. Build hotels, entertainment etc (losing) to support traffic to your casino (winning)

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