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Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

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Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a person dies from a disorder in their 20s, they'll never buy your heart medication in their 70s. Today's patient is tomorrow's patient.

The longer someone lives, the more potential value they can contribute to a society. The opportunity cost is something we've figured out from a medical perspective, but shareholders want returns today, not returns fifty years from now. That is what we need to address.

The longer someone lives, the more potential value can be squeezed.

This is how they should think.

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, that's one way to look at it I suppose, and it's why you see Healthcare Insurers and Private Equity diversify into elder care for a captive audience. In reality though, I was not-so-subtly trying to suggest that if something is necessary for the public good (curing diseases) but a bad business model, then perhaps Capitalism itself is the wrong vehicle for that segment of industry and a different option - be i…

> In reality though, I was not-so-subtly trying to suggest that if something is necessary for the public good (curing diseases) but a bad business model, then perhaps Capitalism itself is the wrong vehicle for that segment of industry and a different option - be it an incentive structure, government-owned pharmaceutical research, or managed economy - is needed. I believe the great innovation of capitalism is markets,…

I think we've discovered that markets are great for some things, and disastrous for others. e.g. fire services, and health.

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a person dies from a disorder in their 20s, they'll never buy your heart medication in their 70s. Today's patient is tomorrow's patient.

The longer someone lives, the more potential value they can contribute to a society. The opportunity cost is something we've figured out from a medical perspective, but shareholders want returns today, not returns fifty years from now. That is what we need to address.

>The longer someone lives, the more potential value they can contribute to a society.

This is a function of how old the sick person is, as well as how severe their sickness and hence recovery will be. The data says, for the most part, healthcare is needed when one is close in age to exhausting their body’s capability anyway.

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#64
Of course it's sustainable. Gilead Sciences is a $155B company originally built on a single drug (Sovaldi) that literally cures Hepatitis C. Now they are more diversified and have a stacked pipeline. The business model just changes to one like oil or mining exploration where you find a deposit with a limited lifespan and you have to keep the treadmill going to find new ones before the mother lode that funds your firm is all tapped out and you go bust.

But while it makes for amazing ragebait and threads full of grievances aired against the healthcare system in general, I think the question isn't very relevant because in Biotech, this is dynamic already essentially forced, cure or not, because of *patent life*. A perfect example of this is Lipitor and Pfizer. Lipitor was not a cure. Statins do not cure you. But it was the most profitable drug of all time. But it eventually went off-patent and now the average price on GoodRX for a 30 day supply is only $6. Pfizer stock has never recovered from that success, though they certainly have a sustainable business.

The modern-day Pfizer is Merck. Merck has probably the most profitable drug in world history (Keytruda) which is far more profitable than Lipitor, and which has massively increased remission rates for a wide range of cancers, so it's somewhat of a cure as well. But that patent life is about to expire, and 46% of Mercks revenue will disappear with it. Of course, new people are diagnosed with cancer every day, and Keytruda will continue to be prescribed in the millions, but Teva and others will sell the generic version and Merck will lose out on the revenue. So the race is on to get more things through their pipeline, acquire some promising assets, and keep the treadmill going. There are 100+ year old mining and oil companies. None are mining the same asset they had one day one, but this doesn't make the industry unsustainable.

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#65
The problem with investors these days is that too many of them seem so focused on short-term gains and showing their numbers increase quarter-over-quarter that we seem to be incapable of looking at an investment over a longer period of time.

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#66

I feel kinda bad for the writer, because it's a good question: no, curing patients is not a good business model, just like public transit is not a good business model. What a lot of folks neglect are N+1-order effects, because those are harder to quantify and fail to reach the predetermined decision some executive or board or shareholder has already made. Is curing patients a bad business model? Sure, for the biotech…

if there was a way to support this say in taxes, it would make good business sense.

But the devil is in the details of implementing that.

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#67

I feel kinda bad for the writer, because it's a good question: no, curing patients is not a good business model, just like public transit is not a good business model. What a lot of folks neglect are N+1-order effects, because those are harder to quantify and fail to reach the predetermined decision some executive or board or shareholder has already made. Is curing patients a bad business model? Sure, for the biotech…

Saying that curing diseases is a bad business model is like saying discovering the world's largest gold mine would be a bad business because you'd eventually run out of gold. The underlying argument doesn't make sense.

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If so, it's not winning, is it? Private US healthcare is winning the race to the bottom on every measure that means a damn.

I generally agree but look at the qualifications for weight loss drugs in the US vs the UK.

Getting approved for weight loss drugs is possible in the US without a ton of work. BMI of 24 and you snore a lot? Possibly covered. High cholesterol and some extra weight? Approved.

There are some things the American healthcare system does very well. Not many, but on occasion things work.

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#69

I feel kinda bad for the writer, because it's a good question: no, curing patients is not a good business model, just like public transit is not a good business model. What a lot of folks neglect are N+1-order effects, because those are harder to quantify and fail to reach the predetermined decision some executive or board or shareholder has already made. Is curing patients a bad business model? Sure, for the biotech…

If a person dies from a disorder in their 20s, they'll never buy your heart medication in their 70s. Today's patient is tomorrow's patient.

The FDA needs to declare death a disease that patentable drugs can be developed against. All of a sudden the flood gates get opened to encouraging drug research on anything that keeps people alive longer.

Re: Goldman Sachs asks in biotech Report: Is curing patients a sustainable business? (2018)

#70
>Where an incident pool remains stable (eg, in cancer) the potential for a cure poses less risk to the sustainability of a franchise.

Precisely. Sustainable tech and research must focus on long term disease development, and not merely those already available to the medical industrial complex for continuous revenue. When was the last time we developed a truly new and novel lifelong, chronic but not overly debilitating illness with profitable methods of providing minor alleviation of symptoms? Diabetes is mostly tapped out, cancers are too unpredictable.

Frankly? Covid-19 was a squandered opportunity. There was ample raw material to work with truly innovative medical developments in both pharmaceuticals and medical equipment: long term wearable ventilators with expensive filters that must be regularly replaced; new over the counter medications with rapid half lives for maximum daily dose consumption— heck, bring back otc cough medicine with opioids! Damned effective and great stickiness of user base with only minor churn even after the cough is gone! Instead? Vaccines. Such a waste. The only saving grace there is the massive boost the anti vax community got out of it, so I can at least cross my fingers on a measles come back tour.

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