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Being poor vs. being broke

blog.ctms.me

701–710 of 732 posts

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#701
post #690
post #577

I feel like the author tells us that being poor means worrying about problems you can’t fix all the time? Or at least, that you believe you can never fix them? If you don’t have the $300 for the own part repair on your truck, there’s no point in worrying about it. If you truck breaks it breaks, it’s never going to recover unless you think of something else. Complaining that you don’t have $300 for even the home repai…

How do you get to work if your car/truck breaks? 95% of American commuters are using personal vehicles. “Fixing your car” is just one example and not anywhere close to the worst imaginable one. “Just don’t worry about skipping meals” “Just don’t worry about that abscess” “Just don’t worry about getting evicted”

You don’t get to work if your car or truck breaks. Now knowing that, what are your best options if it does?

You can spend time finding solutions, or spend time worrying, or writing blog posts saying that people don’t know what it’s like to be poor. I do plenty of spiraling myself, but I try to recognize that it’s not very productive.

Worrying or complaining about the fact that you won’t have any food tomorrow is not going to fill your belly.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#702
post #577

I feel like the author tells us that being poor means worrying about problems you can’t fix all the time? Or at least, that you believe you can never fix them? If you don’t have the $300 for the own part repair on your truck, there’s no point in worrying about it. If you truck breaks it breaks, it’s never going to recover unless you think of something else. Complaining that you don’t have $300 for even the home repai…

We know complaining doesn't fix any problem, but we can't help it. Easier said to tell people to get on with their lives.

That’s as true for the weather as anything else xD

I just feel people always say ‘I have no options’, when they eminently have tons of them. They’re just all bad ones.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#703
post #701
post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get to work if your car/truck breaks? 95% of American commuters are using personal vehicles. “Fixing your car” is just one example and not anywhere close to the worst imaginable one. “Just don’t worry about skipping meals” “Just don’t worry about that abscess” “Just don’t worry about getting evicted”

You don’t get to work if your car or truck breaks. Now knowing that, what are your best options if it does? You can spend time finding solutions, or spend time worrying, or writing blog posts saying that people don’t know what it’s like to be poor. I do plenty of spiraling myself, but I try to recognize that it’s not very productive. Worrying or complaining about the fact that you won’t have any food tomorrow is not…

I don’t think the blog post is written by an author thar is currently poor and is therefore wasting their precious time writing blog posts instead of figuring out their life.

I think the point it’s trying to convey is that people too often blame the poor without stepping in their shoes.

If you think that conversation isn’t “very productive” I’m not sure what planet you’re living on. Certainly not the same planet where the world’s richest country is trying to cut food assistance, add work requirements to social safety net programs, refuse to make even the most basic healthcare services universal, cut the basic healthcare services that it does provide the poorest, and generally has a cultural zeitgeist actively hostile to people in poverty.

You say that the poor person whose car broke down should just magically stop worrying and do something productive like find a solution, but don’t you think that having to do that constantly sounds a bit exhausting?

As someone who is not poor you have no need to train your brain to ignore survival alarms like that. If your car breaks down you have ample options, just throw your uber ride on a credit card, take your car to the fancy dealership that will give you a courtesy car, own a second or third car, or own a nice new car that will never strand you in the first place.

Your belly never feels hunger for too long, your body never feels excessive cold or heat, you don’t feel the pain of untreated preventable health conditions, you don’t feel your body aching from working multiple physical jobs, you don’t feel the adrenaline rush of being mugged or hearing bullets fly in your neighborhood, the police don’t work with a heavy hand because of where you live and they don’t harass you for how you look, you don’t breathe the pollution and don’t hear the noise that disproportionately impacts lower income neighborhoods, [1] you don’t have the government coming to move you and take your house because it’s cheap and convenient to do so. [2]

Those are actual physical survival feelings that you’re just telling the poor to stop worrying about.

[1] Interstate highways don’t tend to cut through/demolish established wealthy neighborhoods.

[2] Here’s a random example: the LA Dodgers stadium was built on the site of a working class neighborhood where the residents were kicked out in a fiasco that can only be described as an abuse of eminent domain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chavez_Ravine

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why that comment got downvoted. I guess that "income inequality" is the Boogeyman Du Jour . I'm unhappy with it, but it is also a lot harder to address, than hardcore poverty. A popular thing for people to do, is wring their hands and complain about problems that can't be solved, while ignoring the ones that can be addressed. Fighting poverty is going to be tough, but fighting income inequality would be orde…

Maybe splitting them is helpful, but why would you have to do them sequentially? Many of the things that reduce income inequality also help reduce poverty. Poverty isn't "low-hanging fruit" and it's something people have been trying to eradicate longer than we've been alive. Saying "let's not even think about B until we've 100% sorted A" is just a way to ensure B never gets done.

Is that what I said?

I apologize. That was not what I meant.

I simply stated they should be decoupled, and approached concurrently.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#705
post #125

Even this does a poor job of explaining being poor. The constant open loop on everything you own, terrified to discard anything even if its broken because there are components that might be useful to fix something else; the constant churn of second-hand (and cheap/disposable) things that are already close to death before they come into your possession and- crucially: the crushing weight of knowing that any financial…

It’s hard to convey this, and what it does to your mentality

My Grandfather grew up poor during the Great Depression, working at a very young age to help support his family. Decades later after attending college on a full scholarship and becoming a doctor his own children would be embarrassed when they were in restaurants. He would see other diners leave their table and a plate would still have food on it, and he would take it and eat it instead of ordering for himself. It wasn't that he didn't understand the norms of eating at a restaurant, it was a pervasive fear, justified when growing up though no longer, of wasting anything. This general mentality was extremely common for anyone that grew up up during the depression. An extremely large number of anyone that lives in constant stress and anxiety for a long period of time experience something similar.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to iPhone point, that's sort of like saying they have a used Gucci bag. A new Motorola phone is cheaper than a 5 year old used iPhone ($130 for a new 2024 moto g vs ~$150-200 for an iPhone 12). A used Motorola is even cheaper (sub $100). Apple has always been a luxury brand. It's basically trivial next to housing, but I still can't imagine buying an Apple product.

A smart phone is increasingly required to do things like banking, pay bills, order things. I live within a bike ride of a lot of places, but it would still add up to hours more a week. And for 3 months of the year there's ice and snow that are rough on the equipment.

That's not my experience in the US, but in any case the phone I mentioned is a smart phone.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about that even.. in my late teens I worked fast food and as a clerical temp worker (I could type fast) for data entry/processing. The fast food job didn't have an issue scheduling me just in the evenings/weekends. A lot of employers are pretty understanding if you have multiple jobs and will work around your needs as much as possible.

>in my late teens I worked fast food and as a clerical temp worker Yes and the world you experienced decades ago doesn't exist anymore. >a clerical temp worker (I could type fast) for data entry/processing Rarely available as a job anymore in the US. People in other countries can do it for cheaper, or local people who are so thoroughly disabled that it's legal to pay them almost nothing just to give them something to…

Well my daughter is juggling 3 part time jobs... But hey, cope however you choose.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the above may not be a popular opinion... maybe it comes from me being older than a lot of people here (50yo) and having grandparents that lived through the Great Depression. I just don't see the point in being defeatist.

The first mention I've seen of The Great Depression. I guess most folks are too young to have had direct contact with people who lived through it. It caused decades of collective trauma. Almost the entire nation became devastatingly poor, overnight. Many folks that lived through it became compulsive hoarders.

My great grandparents and grandparents weren't hoarders... But they were careful not to be wasreful. They would never have bought into Rubbermaid containers when there's margarine or cool whip containers that can be cleaned and reused.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. So far as I know, every single UBI trial has had consistently positive outcomes. People get jobs, get training, get a roof over their heads. Giving people money does in fact give people more choices, and helps make the poor less poor.

Which UBI trials do you know about? There's a list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_pilots But only six of the listed pilots mention the results. 1970s NIT pilots: no noticeable improvements. Mincome: significant reduction in hospitalization. Slight decrease in work? Tribal profit sharing: better homelife for children, parents on the booze less. Madhya Pradesh: great success. Netherlands: in…

Everyone over 65 gets a state pension in NZ. And they hardly contribute to the tax take. I’d say that’s a partial UBI.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#710
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, and an environmnet that allows folks "from the wrong side of the tracks," to get ahead. For all its faults, the US is just such a place. I suspect that many other nations are starting to improve. At one time, the UK was a nation that you couldn't get ahead, unless you were of a certain class. I think that it is much more like the US, nowadays. You can hear lots of cockney accents in Harrods.

> I think that it is much more like the US, nowadays. IIRC, mobility indexes crossed quite a few years ago. IOW, UK is better than the US in this respect. See, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index , though it's a claim I've read based on other data and before that particular index was compiled.

I remember watching Fiona Hill's testimony.

That lady has some serious chops, but she said she had to leave the UK, as she was denied opportunities, because of her "Distinctive Northern Accent" (In the UK, the "North" is considered kind of "Redneck," like our South).

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