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Being poor vs. being broke

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Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#481

Post by steveBK123 »

telesilla wrote: post #323
roxolotl wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea my partner grew up genuinely poor and it’s interesting seeing how it impacts their mentality. The simplest but clear example is they never finish low-perishable food they like until they have more of it. There is always a few potato chips left in the bag. One cookie left waiting till it’s necessary to get through a rough day or more are purchased. They are the best saver I’ve ever met. But it wasn’t until they go…

A close friend grew up in first-world poverty (meaning, warm house, state-supported education, health care) but experienced no luxuries. To this day, they will buy themselves a tub of ice-cream or chocolate and eat it all completely alone, almost hoarding it, because growing up they had to share everything with the many siblings. It's crazy how weird pathologies we humans have.

Money psychology is interesting in that people often end up being traumatized by their parents into behaving identically when the circumstances no longer warrant it, OR have a knee-jerk reaction living their life completely the opposite way because growing up that way drove them insane.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#482

Post by corobo »

danans wrote: post #441
corobo wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a £50 fine might as well be £50,000- its unpayable, and leads to a sort of doom-spiral of lending to avoid worse consequences. Easily you can end up in unmanageable debt Yup! Bank gave me an overdraft when I was 16. At 37 I'm still in debt connected to that first bit of "free" money. I've never earned above £0, and at this point it's too late to care. They can write me off as a minor loss when I kick it haha

> I've never earned above £0, and at this point it's too late to care If you have never earned above 0 at age 37, that suggests that you have a personal situation that actually prevents you from working, not so different from a disabled person might face. Just as tragic is the fact that people who do work full time and earn very little also end up in similar debt spirals. In benevolent societies such people might end…

I work and earn money, my balance has never been above zero. Worded it clumsily maybe.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#484

Post by amatecha »

dijit wrote: post #125

Even this does a poor job of explaining being poor. The constant open loop on everything you own, terrified to discard anything even if its broken because there are components that might be useful to fix something else; the constant churn of second-hand (and cheap/disposable) things that are already close to death before they come into your possession and- crucially: the crushing weight of knowing that any financial…

> terrified to discard anything even if its broken because there are components that might be useful to fix something else; the constant churn of second-hand (and cheap/disposable) things that are already close to death before they come into your possession and- crucially: the crushing weight of knowing that any financial roadbump is existential.

I mean, I'm quite well off (and have never experienced true financial "poorness" at all), and I still have this mindset. Our hyper-capitalist society will have you on the streets for even the the most minor setbacks. Everything feels like a house of cards that could collapse from the smallest breeze.

I just replaced a faulty AC adapter and kept the old one in case the new one fails and the faulty old one will remain an option to repair if I can't repair the newer one.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#485

Post by dukeofdoom »

CallMeJim wrote: post #151
dukeofdoom wrote: post #7

It's also owning lower quality goods, that plague you by breaking all the time. So the maintenance cost (time and energy) is quite high. It's almost better not to have things when you're poor, because the things you have are just a big headache. I think it's also that increasingly working people are living in old houses that were never built properly, and now have lots of problems. And even new things you buy, are ju…

How much would you save yearly if you didn't have a dog? A few accumulated years of those savings would let you buy a better-quality drier or washing machine - saving you from replacing them regularly, or replacing your damaged clothes. Pets are a choice that's fairly high up the Maslow hierarchy. Get rid of them, get into a better position, build up some reserves, and leave your family in a better place than you sta…

Dog food is about $30 a week.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#486

Post by itake »

mehulashah wrote: post #92

He right. I’ve seen poverty in India, but I misunderstood it. There was a 12 year old kid who guided our boat down the Narmada after we spread my Dads ashes. He was not in school because he wanted money. I told him I’d pay him double and continue to pay him for his days work, if he’d go back to school during the day and only row boats at night. He said no. Just give me what you owe me. He had no hope that education i…

My experience with the kids working in Laos was similar but I have a different interpretation.

Your answer was through the eyes of an adult. 12 year olds dont have concept of money. What is a lot of money or why they need to go to school.

Asking a 12 year old to understand the value of money and education and life is not fair to the child.

What’s actually going on, at least in Laos, is the parents are directing the kids to do these jobs. The kids don’t understand why, but it’s what their mom wants him to do and it makes her happy when they do it.

I think to address these problems, the better solution is to help parents be better parents. Get them jobs, get them educated, get them skills.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#487

Post by Paradigm2020 »

mc32 wrote: post #464
filleduchaos wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had to do actual loads of laundry (for a household, and not just clothes - towels, beddings, and more), entirely by hand, no laundromat or friend with access to a machine, which is why I ask. It is both back-breaking and time-intensive especially if you are trying to get clean laundry not just "smells of detergent" laundry. And especially if there's someone who does manual labour in the household - getting hea…

It is —but there are also the Amish and others like them who do lots of things manually and try to avoid many modern conveniences. I don’t think they live poor lives. Definitely better than the poor in the countryside who don’t have the same ingrained customs who often need government help.

97% of amish use washing machines...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish

There is a reason

See also Ted talk about best invention ever by factfulness guy

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#488

Post by JohnMakin »

Terr_ wrote: post #238
JohnMakin wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d say a large percentage of americans do. It’s burned into the cultural mindset at a very young age.

Culture is important, but it's widespread enough that there's probably a biological basis. Humans are wired to hate the idea of "good/bad things just happen", we're always creating stories about causation even when they might not be very accurate stories. Consider how a game of flipping a coin seems to draw everyone—even people who took probability and statistics classes—into imagining "hot streaks" or "now I'm overd…

if you want to go down a rabbit hole, lots of its roots stem from protestantism, especially calvinism. that cultural influence is not unique to the us, but i don’t really subscribe to any evolutionary behavior explanations to attitudes like this, personally

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#489

Post by xp84 »

vdqtp3 wrote: post #160
aduwah wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can give you an example. Single divorced mother with two kids. Working in social care for minimal wage, often earning lower amounts than the people she cares for. There are no savings, no relatives to help. Job change is an uncertainty that could introduce homelessness for the whole family if it doesn't work out. Not many options there. Now if you move this scenario out of rich countries it will get even worse

My mental poster child for "poor" is exactly this person. She had three kids (all in public school), lived in section 8 and worked part-time bagging groceries. The kids had nothing nice, clothes were all hand-me-down or donations with holes in them from being so old. No car, no health care, horrible dentistry to the point of becoming an emergency. They had a bigger TV than my middle class family, a premium channel pa…

> you don't get to have luxuries AND complain about being poor.

Some people might be inclined to try to drag you for the first half of that statement, and honestly I'm inclined to try to not judge poor people for what I usually assume is one or two small splurges that raise their moods just high enough to not slit their wrists, you know?

But I think the second half of the sentence is kinda fair. IF they are self-aware that they are choosing to divert money from more important things, it's their life and I don't really want to pass judgment. If they whine constantly that "the system" is keeping them down while continuously making "unforced" errors with their money, that's when it makes me start to roll my eyes.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#490

Post by p3rls »

dijit wrote: post #125

Even this does a poor job of explaining being poor. The constant open loop on everything you own, terrified to discard anything even if its broken because there are components that might be useful to fix something else; the constant churn of second-hand (and cheap/disposable) things that are already close to death before they come into your possession and- crucially: the crushing weight of knowing that any financial…

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