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Being poor vs. being broke

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Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#321

Post by amazing_stories »

posix86 wrote: post #233

Travelling to a 3rd world country with genuinely poor people can help, a bit. When you see the houses genuinely poor people live in, it purs things into perspective. Being in appartment where the roof... is broken. And you have no way to fix it. No way. There's cold coming inside, mold on the walls, no real kitchen, no real bed, "living room"?? Lol. You grow up not getting a proper education, your parents have worked…

Poverty is a spectrum. Naturally, abject poverty is worse than regular poverty. I see too many people say "you're not poor, you have a phone" or "you're not homeless, you aren't sleeping on the sidewalk" (both of these have been said to me). There is a mismatch between what people imagine as poor and what poverty is, and of course, things could always be worse.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#322

Post by jay_kyburz »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #15

I like this guy’s backstory[0]. I grew up in Africa. The poverty I saw, as a child, was foundational in my own personal development. There are some places in the US, that have that kind of poverty, but I have not seen them, with my own eyes. I have family that dedicated most of their life to fighting poverty (with very limited success). They believe that poverty is probably the single biggest problem in the world, to…

>and creates a level of desperation that is incredibly dangerous.

I came into the comments looking for this sentiment.

We have a fairly good safety net here in my country, I've lived on study and unemployment benefits when I was young.

But when the author mentions they can't just make $300 appear out of nowhere, I can't help thinking that it _is_ possible, its just dangerous.

update: That's why we have good safety nets. Its dangerous for everybody.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#323

Post by telesilla »

roxolotl wrote: post #195
dijit wrote: post #125

Even this does a poor job of explaining being poor. The constant open loop on everything you own, terrified to discard anything even if its broken because there are components that might be useful to fix something else; the constant churn of second-hand (and cheap/disposable) things that are already close to death before they come into your possession and- crucially: the crushing weight of knowing that any financial…

Yea my partner grew up genuinely poor and it’s interesting seeing how it impacts their mentality. The simplest but clear example is they never finish low-perishable food they like until they have more of it. There is always a few potato chips left in the bag. One cookie left waiting till it’s necessary to get through a rough day or more are purchased. They are the best saver I’ve ever met. But it wasn’t until they go…

A close friend grew up in first-world poverty (meaning, warm house, state-supported education, health care) but experienced no luxuries. To this day, they will buy themselves a tub of ice-cream or chocolate and eat it all completely alone, almost hoarding it, because growing up they had to share everything with the many siblings. It's crazy how weird pathologies we humans have.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#324

Post by cycomanic »

carlosjobim wrote: post #248
ModernMech wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's nobody's fault Sure, but it's the system's fault, and we can point at the people who are keeping the system the way it is. The system is what it does, and what it does is syphon money from everyone else and pumps it upward to a few individuals. That's not an accident, people are responsible for that, they like the way it works, and they're intent on keeping it that way. Remember, in this system you get paid mo…

Have you seen "the system" sleeping on the streets, starving, or not having enough clothes? No matter who or what is to blame, the individual is who is paying the price and who should have the strongest interest to get out of that situation. Which means, if you're staying in that situation for years on end you have to admit to yourself you are doing something which isn't working. Thats why people have more sympathy f…

Yes the argument that being poor is some sort of character flaw, while realistically it's just a lack of money, usually inherited from the parents. I would bet that most people who make these arguments (like everyone else) would end up permanently poor if one was to take away their money and networks.

All research (e.g. UBI trials, mirco loan experiments...) have shown that giving someone poor access to money allows them to dramatically improve their situation.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#325

Post by mattio »

I grew up poor as dirt. My mom has four kids with three dads. Eventually we were a family of six. I think we had about 100 euros a month for food, clothing and recreation. My mom and stepdad did not work one day in their lives (welfare in NL).

Right now I’m still recovering. It’s my fifth year making over 150K and I have zero to show for it because I did a poor job managing my finances. To help me (in general, but also productivity wise) I have a coach and coincidentally today exerpeinced a breakthrough. I am still afraid of being poor. Of being made fun of. And not being enough.

I’m operating out of a ‘it’s not enough’ mentality, because I don’t feel enough. It feels like a life sentence, but some hope shimmers at the end of the tunnel.

What it’s like being poor: even buying a simple football in a supermarket felt leagues out of reach. Being sent back home because a teacher told me my clothes did not cut it. And my parents just sent me back. I never thought there was a path for me to become a doctor. Or any other noble job. Growing up or being poor is not being able to see a way out. Recognising opportunity.

Forgive me my language. Super tired and on my phone.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#326

Post by washadjeffmad »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #267
ztetranz wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find myself doing that. I'm not sure if it's just a silly habit I have because I don't like to run out of anything even if it is not important or if I picked it up from my dad who lived through the "great" depression as a child.

Conversely, I had an acquaintance that grew poor, and would finish 95% of the cookies in a bag, but always leave the almost empty bag to the next person to find out, even if it had to stay that way for months. Strangely, she did that only with comfort foods.

The 'blank in the firing squad' technique of snacking is a pretty typical girl thing.

Eating cookies? Perfectly fine. Eating an entire bag of cookies? Gross. Unthinkable.

But how many cookies is really fine to eat? The safest best is not to know, either by breaking them into uncountable pieces or leaving some in the bag for someone else to finish (meaning, you ate less than a bag of cookies and are safe).

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#327

Post by atomicthumbs »

phplovesong wrote: post #213

Im not rich, but i get by, and can say i live a decent life (in terms of what i can get "with fiat"). Im from a totally normal middle class-ish family. I always worked (since like 14-15) and got my own savings started when i was young. I really cant think of why you could not get out of beeing poor, IF you have the wits and willpower. If you grind some shithole job for 6 bucks/hour you should think really hard on you…

"Im from a totally normal middle class-ish family."

Maybe that's why you can't comprehend the idea of being poor in a fashion that doesn't let you escape, even working as hard as you possibly can and making all the right choices.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#328

Post by mrguyorama »

more_corn wrote: post #312
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, and an environmnet that allows folks "from the wrong side of the tracks," to get ahead. For all its faults, the US is just such a place. I suspect that many other nations are starting to improve. At one time, the UK was a nation that you couldn't get ahead, unless you were of a certain class. I think that it is much more like the US, nowadays. You can hear lots of cockney accents in Harrods.

“Used to be” such a place. Stagnating minimum wage while inflation proceeds unchecked, the rise of marginal employment and contract work. Skyrocketing housing costs. I don’t think the us is such a place anymore. It fast becoming a place that is not.

The US was never a place like that. Even in the mostly imagined "golden age" of the fifties, if you were the wrong family or color you would not be able to reliably get out of poverty no matter how much effort or guile you could afford

The bank did not care that you would be a profitable customer, they still weren't going to lend to you.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#329

Post by relaxing »

carlosjobim wrote: post #279
dugidugout wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I understand the sentiment, you stated it yourself, "It has always amazed me, because poverty is hell. Who wouldn't want to get out of that, and who wouldn't want his fellow brother to get out of that?". This is a puzzling question to ask and it shouldn't stop there. The post is very much trying to add some depth here, however it isn't targeting solutions for "poor" people, it is hoping to provoke those who are…

My solution is boring, but it works for the individual who is in that situation: Go and work somewhere where you are provided food and board and a salary. Not only do you physically get yourself out of the environment which has dragged you down, you can also cut out expenses such as rent and even transportation. Which is huge. Yes, it's not a fun solution. It won't make you rich. But it will take you out of being dir…

I think implicit in the anti-poverty argument is individuals shouldn’t have to take a vow of poverty. So the monastery is out.

Not everyone is physically cut out for the merchant marines. This is also inconveniently ignores OP’s family.

Not everyone wants to join the military, but that feels like it’s getting somewhere… What if the government had other jobs that paid food and shelter?

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#330

Post by jay_kyburz »

metalforever wrote: post #231
zarl wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people in America who do not have electricity or even running water in their homes. This is just not true. America has many problems but access to electricity/running water simply is not one of them.

I know people without running water in their house right now in America . In fact I know multiple families in this situation .

I know some people living in their car. It doesn't have running water or electricity.
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