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Being poor vs. being broke

blog.ctms.me

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Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#271

Post by gopher_space »

wagwang wrote: post #133
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #15

I like this guy’s backstory[0]. I grew up in Africa. The poverty I saw, as a child, was foundational in my own personal development. There are some places in the US, that have that kind of poverty, but I have not seen them, with my own eyes. I have family that dedicated most of their life to fighting poverty (with very limited success). They believe that poverty is probably the single biggest problem in the world, to…

My parents grew up poor in manner that is more extreme than anything OP described in the post and they always remind me that its just hard work and grit.

Immigrants show up in America having been knocked down by life here zero times and then compare themselves to people who've been knocked down generationally.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#272

Post by webdood90 »

thewebguyd wrote: post #249
webdood90 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the discussion about only one particular kind of poor person? The system is a trap to keep people poor. A lot of people make the wrong decisions that keep them there. Can we not talk about that? It doesn't belittle the subset of folks that it doesn't apply to. I grew up this way and saw it first-hand. A dead-beat step dad who didn't work for literally _years_. A mother with the only income of less than $40k/year f…

> Is the discussion about only one particular kind of poor person? Yes, according to the OP. The article already describes the people you are talking about as "broke," not "poor." We already know that those in the broke category can, in most cases, make better decisions and reduce their spending and possibly get ahead. The ones not in that category can't, which is who the article is about. The discussion is how do we…

I think that's a fair point.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#273

Post by roxolotl »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #267
ztetranz wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find myself doing that. I'm not sure if it's just a silly habit I have because I don't like to run out of anything even if it is not important or if I picked it up from my dad who lived through the "great" depression as a child.

Conversely, I had an acquaintance that grew poor, and would finish 95% of the cookies in a bag, but always leave the almost empty bag to the next person to find out, even if it had to stay that way for months. Strangely, she did that only with comfort foods.

Yea this is exactly what I’m describing

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#274

Post by ModernMech »

carlosjobim wrote: post #248
ModernMech wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's nobody's fault Sure, but it's the system's fault, and we can point at the people who are keeping the system the way it is. The system is what it does, and what it does is syphon money from everyone else and pumps it upward to a few individuals. That's not an accident, people are responsible for that, they like the way it works, and they're intent on keeping it that way. Remember, in this system you get paid mo…

Have you seen "the system" sleeping on the streets, starving, or not having enough clothes? No matter who or what is to blame, the individual is who is paying the price and who should have the strongest interest to get out of that situation. Which means, if you're staying in that situation for years on end you have to admit to yourself you are doing something which isn't working. Thats why people have more sympathy f…

In 2024 over 700k people were homeless in the USA. That's a system failure. If you want to talk about personal failings you have to consider individual circumstances. But 700k being homeless is abjectly just not how a civil society should operate.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#275

Post by ASalazarMX »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #252
dijit wrote: post #125

Even this does a poor job of explaining being poor. The constant open loop on everything you own, terrified to discard anything even if its broken because there are components that might be useful to fix something else; the constant churn of second-hand (and cheap/disposable) things that are already close to death before they come into your possession and- crucially: the crushing weight of knowing that any financial…

I spent years getting over the idea of saving some half broken thing because “I might need a part from that later”

Specially because occasionally the usefulness of such saved junk appeared to prove the thought right, the rest of the unused pile of junk notwithstanding.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#276

Post by tredre3 »

reaperducer wrote: post #214
zarl wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people in America who do not have electricity or even running water in their homes. This is just not true. America has many problems but access to electricity/running water simply is not one of them.

This is just not true. America has many problems but access to electricity/running water simply is not one of them. You are disconnected from reality. I can take you to places in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, West Virginia, and even California where people have to live without electricity, running water, or both. I'll take the word of what I've personally seen with my own eyes over someone who created an HN account thr…

> I'll take the word of what I've personally seen with my own eyes over someone who created an HN account three minutes ago.

> I can take you to places in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, West Virginia, and even California where people have to live without electricity, running water, or both.

But can you provide us with a source other than your own eyes for the "millions of people" you claim to be living in such conditions?

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#277

Post by bombcar »

tekla wrote: post #153
wagwang wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents grew up poor in manner that is more extreme than anything OP described in the post and they always remind me that its just hard work and grit.

Both my parents came to America with less than $20 and nothing else but what they wore. I constantly think of how hard they worked to let me live such a leisurely life.

Sadly many kids (college graduates) start out with -250k$ and the clothes they're wearing.

Of course, they often have family they can fall back on, and education, but debt creates an entirely new class of 'less than dirt' poor.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#278

Post by antisthenes »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #270
antisthenes wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were lucky to have the genetics that allowed you to have cognitive capabilities to understand computers and programming. Many people don't and never will. There is always a bottom % of people who are under the cognitive capacity to meaningfully contribute to society. That doesn't mean they are bad people, but they will always be poor/broke. Ranting about this is just ranting about human nature. Life isn't fair, s…

>There is always a bottom % of people who are under the cognitive capacity to meaningfully contribute to society. That doesn't mean they are bad people, but they will always be poor/broke. There's a lot of dumb rich people, too. Sometimes the wield a lot of power and are indeed bad people.

Yes, inheritance is a thing, and having smart kids from smart parents is not a guarantee.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#279

Post by carlosjobim »

dugidugout wrote: post #241
carlosjobim wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess because the ratio of people complaining about poverty is 10 000 to 1 compared to people who give solutions to poverty. There are solutions to poverty, which the individual person can follow, but nobody wants to talk about those. It has always amazed me, because poverty is hell. Who wouldn't want to get out of that, and who wouldn't want his fellow brother to get out of that? I could talk about it here, but I…

While I understand the sentiment, you stated it yourself, "It has always amazed me, because poverty is hell. Who wouldn't want to get out of that, and who wouldn't want his fellow brother to get out of that?". This is a puzzling question to ask and it shouldn't stop there. The post is very much trying to add some depth here, however it isn't targeting solutions for "poor" people, it is hoping to provoke those who are…

My solution is boring, but it works for the individual who is in that situation: Go and work somewhere where you are provided food and board and a salary. Not only do you physically get yourself out of the environment which has dragged you down, you can also cut out expenses such as rent and even transportation. Which is huge.

Yes, it's not a fun solution. It won't make you rich. But it will take you out of being dirt poor, which the article is about. One example of those kind of places is the merchant navy. You're on a ship, so you don't have to spend any money and you can't even spend it. Instead of going on shore leave like the other people, just get extra days, or work on another ship on your leave days. I'm not going to mention the military, because people might have objections against killing and being killed, but it works in the same way.

While you're at it, you have the opportunity for a career or education. And entry level jobs are available for those who have the work ethic.

Monastic life is another such example, where you are at least provided for. And traditionally the monasteries have swallowed up millions of people who would have been dirt poor, and given them an alternative. Just like the merchant navy and the military has done the same for millions. You can arrive to these places with nothing but the clothes on your back, and start putting together your life again.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#280

Post by strix_varius »

switchbak wrote: post #77
rsyring wrote: post #2

https://blog.ctms.me/about/ It would appear from the about page and the article that he has the requisite skills to earn an income that should move him out of the "poor" category: - auto mechanic - digital tech - landscaping I'm not trying to dismiss the difficult realities associated with being poor. But if you have the skills to make more money and bring your family out of the "poor" category, why wouldn't you do t…

Not just that, they appear to have 6 kids. I have a lot of empathy for people that are struggling financially, especially with how hard things are now. I grew up in a way that most would consider to be "poor", though I mostly never felt that way. I do well for myself now, better than I ever thought I could, and yet still I had to think very hard about the financial implications and compromises that come with choosing…

This gets me too. I generally agree that success is basically luck * effort, so I don't judge people who haven't been able to "make it." Similarly, I don't really admire people for having "made it"... If I don't know them personally, there's no way for me to gauge the ratio of luck and effort.

However, I do judge adults who aren't in good circumstances who also decide to bring children into their hardship. I have two kids, which is the most I felt I could provide for (time, money, attention, energy, etc).

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