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Being poor vs. being broke

blog.ctms.me

221–230 of 732 posts

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#221
I’ve ridden the spectrum, as it were. I grew up upper middle class, with a sprawling McMansion, a car for each sibling, a country club membership, the works. I’ve been broke, squandering money and racking up debt, but finding enough escape hatches to avoid irreparable harm. I’ve been homeless, getting by through the good graces of friends and family until I got back on my feet through the help of a good friend and wildly risky move to a place I’d never been, sight unseen. I’ve spent years being poor in a food desert, stretching pizza deliveries across a week of meals because the nearest store was a ten mile walk down an interstate highway. And now, through luck, work, and the help of friends (but mostly luck, statistically speaking), I’m eking out a good life in a good apartment with extortionate rent and a toxic job.

This author lays out the experience of being “poor” perfectly. It’s a case of doing all the right things, and still failing. It’s being constantly stuck in survival mode no matter how hard you work, because there’s always a new expense, a new hurdle, a new obstacle to reset your progress - because being poor means you can’t even afford the “save point” of insurance or redundancies or savings to fall back on.

It’s why even when I was scraping above the $200k mark at PriorCo in TC, I was championing more social services. More healthcare support, more housing assistance, more compensation. We could afford it, but shareholder returns came first. It was sickening knowing colleagues who lived in vans because despite pulling down six figure salaries, it simply wasn’t enough for rent when expenses continued to pile up for injuries or illnesses.

Those of means and privilege simply do not grasp how hard it is to exist in America without large sums of cash behind you. I was struggling on less when rent was still considered reasonable, in one of the cheapest states to live in. In the fifteen-odd years since, it’s just gotten exponentially worse, even as the stock market has exploded in value.

It’s why I never stop arguing for better, because I know how bad it can get.

I was just lucky enough to escape.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#222

The post does a good job of describing a phenomenological difference between being broke and being poor, and its account seems plausible to me. But what I'm curious about is the causal difference between the two. I've known working class folks who seem like they're getting by fine, even if they're occasionally "broke", and I've known working class folks who are constantly in financial crisis, and definitely fit in th…

I’m wealthy but I wasnt always. When I was 22 through 30 I didn’t take a single vacation that wasn’t driving to a long weekend. My wife and I both pulled 60 to 70 hour weeks for our entire 20s (I still do). No one “deserves” free time. If you don’t want to work 70 hours a week and want to watch Netflix instead, go for it, but don’t bitch to me

> No one “deserves” free time

Careful. It sounds an awful lot like you feel you "deserve" to be wealthy from your hard work, but in reality it was the type of work you were doing that got you there, because there are a whole lot of people working 60 to 70 hour weeks decades out of their 20s and will never be secure monetarily.

(leaving aside the pricklier philosophical aspect that a particular type of work being valued so much more than another type of work is also fairly arbitrary in a very similar way to whether or not a human "deserves" free time)

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents grew up poor in manner that is more extreme than anything OP described in the post and they always remind me that its just hard work and grit.

>its just hard work and grit Which country, though? Because that's like 90% of the solution. The other 9% is good health. The remaining 1% is a mix of your community/family/friends and, sure, hard work and grit and whatnot.

china 1962

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many people buy the American dream of "If you just work hard enough, you'll be successful.". If you believe this, then you'd have to believe the opposite: "If you're poor and unsucessful, that means you didn't work hard enough, you must be lazy.". And too many trust-fund kids or kids from rich parents who could afford to send them to expensive schools (or rich enough to live in a district with a well-funded schoo…

I think an aspect of a lot of those luckier kids is that they think being told they were lucky invalidates the hard work they feel they did, turning it into a nonsensical contest of comparing apples to oranges. My siblings have a similar complaint when my Dad essentially implies that they were lucky in having the successes they have had. They do still somewhat understand what he means, but they dislike it because the…

This definitely comes up a lot and I've never found a satisfactory way to get through to these people that you can both work hard and be lucky.

The ultimate point is to get people to empathize with others, it's easy, especially in the general american culture, to treat being poor as a moral failure.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#225

I like this guy’s backstory[0]. I grew up in Africa. The poverty I saw, as a child, was foundational in my own personal development. There are some places in the US, that have that kind of poverty, but I have not seen them, with my own eyes. I have family that dedicated most of their life to fighting poverty (with very limited success). They believe that poverty is probably the single biggest problem in the world, to…

> But, I absolutely hated working in an office. I also hated what digital marketing has done to people’s privacy. I had to get out. So, after 10 years I left and went back to my roots. I founded a sprinkler contracting business with my brother and work outside all day, every day. And I love it. I don't think this person should be putting themselves in the same category as people who are stuck in poverty with no optio…

I don't think he is. That's sort of his point.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#226

While I get it, I disagree with some of the premise... especially the idea of working two jobs. My dad has worked multiple jobs at a time when I was growing up... I've worked multiple jobs at a time as recently as this year. Now, I'm getting old (50yo) and really couldn't handle it as well as I could in my 20s, but I still did it. It's not a permanent solution, but it's not a bad thing to do when you need to in order…

I know the above may not be a popular opinion... maybe it comes from me being older than a lot of people here (50yo) and having grandparents that lived through the Great Depression. I just don't see the point in being defeatist.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder why folks who start with roughly the same skills, intelligence and opportunities (and bank account balance!) can nevertheless end up in very different places? I don't want to sound dismissive but sometimes it's just luck.

Luck really can’t be overstated imo. I was genuinely just lucky to be interested in computer programming as a teenager. I wasn’t thinking about careers, I just wanted to make games. If my interest was basketball my life would have been very different.

You were lucky to have the genetics that allowed you to have cognitive capabilities to understand computers and programming.

Many people don't and never will.

There is always a bottom % of people who are under the cognitive capacity to meaningfully contribute to society. That doesn't mean they are bad people, but they will always be poor/broke.

Ranting about this is just ranting about human nature. Life isn't fair, some of us will be short, have bad looks, be unappealing to women, etc. And some of us will not have the cognitive capacity to have a job that keeps you above water, forever.

The only thing we can do is be compassionate and help out. Maybe eventually we will have enough mastery over genetics where we can make people truly equal in ability.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#228
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where can I read more about it? I don't see the connection, but I could be wrong, so interested in some reading on this topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_S... It's one of the classic subjects in sociology, https://oyc.yale.edu/sociology/socy-151/lecture-16

I knew what Calvinism was... this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic is an interesting read, will explore the topic more. Thank you :)

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#229
post #2

https://blog.ctms.me/about/ It would appear from the about page and the article that he has the requisite skills to earn an income that should move him out of the "poor" category: - auto mechanic - digital tech - landscaping I'm not trying to dismiss the difficult realities associated with being poor. But if you have the skills to make more money and bring your family out of the "poor" category, why wouldn't you do t…

>landscaping

You're not going to make any money in this unless you have a ton of tools. Working for someone else with the tools generally doesn't pay crap. Also in the US it is/was common to use undeclared immigrant labor for these kinds of jobs.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#230
post #201
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what Cottonwood Day School on the Navajo reservation actually looks like. https://cds.bie.edu/ Clean modern buildings, desks, air conditioning, running water, very nice. You were fooled by that photo into making a bigger assumption about the full school and situation.

I can’t imagine why anyone would be deliberately misled to believe Cottonwood Day School on the Navajo reservation is not very nice. Oh wait

Not American born so there is some obvious thing here that’s not so obvious to me. What’s the ref? Is it a race thing
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