Does OpenAI use Ory? I thought they’re using Auth0.
Kratos - Cloud native Auth0 open-source alternative (self-hosted)
31–40 of 99 posts
Re: Kratos - Cloud native Auth0 open-source alternative (self-hosted)
#32I tried to use Ory for my company and cannot recommend it. Zitadel has been far better
I tried setting up Zitadel and couldn't because for whatever reason it's Nix build isn't reproduceable. So Nix always breaks when trying to verify that it, you know, actually built correctly. So I eventually gave up.
Yeah I understand we did not really invest time there, sorry.
Re: Kratos - Cloud native Auth0 open-source alternative (self-hosted)
#33I've used [Keycloak]( https://www.keycloak.org/ ) in the past for "open-source Auth0" -- though I'm not sure it has ever described itself that way. Keycloak ended up being quite extensible and powerful, but the UI and data model both sometimes made things more difficult than they had to be... this could be an interesting project to look at. One bonus (for us) for Keycloak was that it was JVM-based, meaning it was eas…
> One bonus (for us) for Keycloak was that it was JVM-based, meaning it was easier to integrate our existing JVM libraries. Though its use of Hibernate was frustrating at times, heh I'm pretty frightened of running Java services, not because of the JVM, but because every Java app I've had to operate is infinitely configurable via some poorly documented XML file, and trying to reverse engineer the XML file is often di…
The nice thing about the Java base here was that instead of trying to solve problems with a mess of configuration, we could just write our own code plugging directly into / replacing parts of Keycloak. Definitely don't disagree with you about the pain of XML, but that wasn't an issue for us here at all
Re: Kratos - Cloud native Auth0 open-source alternative (self-hosted)
#34I tried to use Ory for my company and cannot recommend it. Zitadel has been far better
I tried setting up Zitadel and couldn't because for whatever reason it's Nix build isn't reproduceable. So Nix always breaks when trying to verify that it, you know, actually built correctly. So I eventually gave up.
Originally (maybe over a year ago) I had similar issues. But now Zitadel is one `enable = true;` option[1] away and in the official nixpkgs repo so you shouldn't really have this issue anymore. I was able to use it pretty easily with the built in service and postgres service[2] (note mine is encapsulated in a nixos container but otherwise the inner config is all you really need).
[1]: https://search.nixos.org/options?channel=25.05&query=zitadel
[2]: https://git.joshuabell.xyz/ringofstorms/dotfiles/src/branch/...
Re: Kratos - Cloud native Auth0 open-source alternative (self-hosted)
#35Do I need to use the other services from the Ory stack to have this be complete? I tried reading the Ory docs a couple of times when I needed an auth solution but it was indecipherable to me as someone not living in the auth world
Check out the ChatGPT-generated simplified doc I created for you - https://chatgpt.com/s/69160cf5ed9481919a0a76a1e4f9ba93 (it's a public URL)
Re: Kratos - Cloud native Auth0 open-source alternative (self-hosted)
#36Do I need to use the other services from the Ory stack to have this be complete? I tried reading the Ory docs a couple of times when I needed an auth solution but it was indecipherable to me as someone not living in the auth world
It depends what your requirements are. If you are "just" doing first-party login, session, and user mgmt then Ory Kratos is all you need. I would say in the majority of cases you would be fine with just Ory Kratos. If you want 3rd party integrations, or become an IDP (think "login with $yourcorp"), or you migrate an existing system that relies on OAuth2 that you want to keep, or you have more complex auth flows where…
Can you please review if this "simplification" is more or less accurate? :)
https://chatgpt.com/s/69160cf5ed9481919a0a76a1e4f9ba93
Re: Kratos - Cloud native Auth0 open-source alternative (self-hosted)
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
> One bonus (for us) for Keycloak was that it was JVM-based, meaning it was easier to integrate our existing JVM libraries. Though its use of Hibernate was frustrating at times, heh I'm pretty frightened of running Java services, not because of the JVM, but because every Java app I've had to operate is infinitely configurable via some poorly documented XML file, and trying to reverse engineer the XML file is often di…
The nice thing about the Java base here was that instead of trying to solve problems with a mess of configuration, we could just write our own code plugging directly into / replacing parts of Keycloak. Definitely don't disagree with you about the pain of XML, but that wasn't an issue for us here at all
Yeah, I fully believe that there are advantages for your team, and even that Keycloak is much better than the Java apps I have had to operate. I'm just traumatized. :)
Re: Kratos - Cloud native Auth0 open-source alternative (self-hosted)
#38We are using ory kratos in production.
- It works and does the job. I appreciate that we got this piece of tech for free when we needed with quickly.
- The doc is clearly written in a way to steer you toward their cloud (fair enough everybody needs to eat). Setting things up is not straight forward even after years of using it.
- Backend driven UI is just weird.
- The founder used to be very opinionated on some things but let bigger issues "rot", better now that they have grown as a business.
- The fact that they wont do SAML in kratos cause its part of their cloud thing and they bought another business speaks volume to me. OSS for ory is a growth strategy, their enterprise version cloud is also not the same as the OSS one.
For OAuth2 we considered Hydra but decided to build it ourselves since we want to host on prem and want to reduce moving parts. We will also likely end up replacing kratos eventually.
TLDR it is a good tech to consider instead of building it yourself. It makes sense for B2C freemium products since all other providers charge per seat. But its not the easiest to setup.
Re: Kratos - Cloud native Auth0 open-source alternative (self-hosted)
#39https://indigo-iam.github.io/ is another self-hosted open source IAM platform, that's come out of academia.
Re: Kratos - Cloud native Auth0 open-source alternative (self-hosted)
#40I tried to use Ory for my company and cannot recommend it. Zitadel has been far better
Without any arguments you bring absolutely zero to the conversation.
For example, in a head to head I would prefer Ory because Go is more compatible with the stack I'm working with.